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Broadband Take-Up
     By Paul Fearon (paul) on Sunday, 22 June, 2003 - 12:17 pm: | Hello,
I live in Moresby Parks Whitehaven and have tried to get Broadband on several occasions but have failed because my line loss is too great (some of the line back to the exchange is made up of aluminium)
I just want in on record that at least one person in Moresby Parks would like to have Broadband!
Thanks
Paul. |
| By Anonymous on Sunday, 22 June, 2003 - 05:17 pm: | | I know how you Feel Paul I live on Harras Moor and can’t get Broadband yet the guy over the fence on the Highlands can get it. |
| By Paul Fearon (paul) on Sunday, 22 June, 2003 - 06:58 pm: | | What worries me is that when the rollout of Broadband begins the area around Whitehaven will be ignored because of the assumption that everyone with a Whitehaven postal address already has access to DSL based Broadband, which obviously is not the case. |
| By Phil on Monday, 23 June, 2003 - 05:11 pm: | | Does anyone know if broadband will be coming to Dalston? |
| By G Carlisle on Monday, 23 June, 2003 - 06:41 pm: | I would imagine the chances of BT DSL coming to Dalston are remote to none existant. The only way I could see it happening, could be as a community project via the Parish Council.
A Wi-Fi internet service could be created, servicing a small area.
Other places in the country have done it, maybe a line of site with a building such as the Civic Centre might (permission unlikely without significant support) be possible, the signal would then be distributed via 802.11b protocols. |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Tuesday, 24 June, 2003 - 08:17 am: | Hi Paul, have you registered your interest on the Register page of this website? Doing so will certainly help.
It is CIBI's aim to get broadband to up to 90% of people and businesses in Cumbria and we are working on how that can be achieved, we are currently on target to begin rollout of broadband around the county from early 2004.
One thing to remember is that broadband does not have to come down the telephone line, DSL is not the only delivery method, see Broadband Delivery Methods.
CIBI is aware of where in the county broadband is available and no assumptions will be made about coverage, as we acknowledge that most broadband delivery methods have some constraints. |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Tuesday, 24 June, 2003 - 08:23 am: | Anonymous
If you have not already done so please register on this website so that we are aware of your interest in broadband. There is no commitment by doing so. |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Tuesday, 24 June, 2003 - 08:30 am: | Phil, Dalston is one of the areas which we would expect the CIBI rollout to cover.
Please register with us if you have not already done so.
G Carlisle is correct in saying that many areas around the country have used wireless technologies to rollout in their areas, so that could be an option if there is a will in the Dalston area, but it would take commitment and dedication by someone.
Or you can hang on until next year when we expect the CIBI rollout to take place. |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Tuesday, 24 June, 2003 - 08:33 am: | | Most messages seem to be saying that people are not taking up broadband because it is not yet available in their area. Is there anyone living in a broadband enabled area who has not taken it up yet and would they share with us what it is that has stopped them? |
| By Craig Boyd From Penrith on Thursday, 26 June, 2003 - 09:52 am: | I Have a reson because you see my playstation 2 is going to go online and has to have broadband plus i am a web designer,people in america will enjoy great games online and in the rest of the uk too,then me.... i will sit alone waiting for it so i can play FINAL FANTASY XI (Online).
I live in penrith and my school has broadband and not us!? |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Friday, 27 June, 2003 - 10:45 am: | | Craig, If you live in Penrith then from 20th August 2003 you should be able to get ADSL broadband via your telephone line. |
| By Neil from Cotehill on Monday, 30 June, 2003 - 08:26 pm: | | Will any sort of broadband be available in the Cotehill area? My BT exchange is Wetheral. I am registered with BT and this site. |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Wednesday, 02 July, 2003 - 09:46 am: | Neil, glad to hear that you have registered. I would expect that the Cotehill area will fall within the broadband roll out.
It would be useful if you were able to encourage your friends and neighbours to register if they have not already done so.
I have leaflets which I can let you have for distribution if you felt that they may help. |
| By ITPSL on Wednesday, 02 July, 2003 - 01:33 pm: | I run a small consultancy from home and would die for Broadband access. It is extremely frustrating that I have to travel to London to work on Client sites when many of the consultants I work alongside often choose to work from home using their broadband access.
My home is situated very close to the Westlakes Science Park and the BNFL Summer Grove facility. A question for the moderator, would it be possible to tap into their Broadband facilities (assuming they have them) |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Wednesday, 02 July, 2003 - 06:06 pm: | I understand and share the frustration you feel about the opportunities which may be missed or denied to those without a broaband connection.
To answer your specific question, currently Westlakes Science Park does not have broadband available, however they are working towards changing that situation. As far as the BNFL site is concerned I have no knowledge of the facilities available and therefore cannot comment on the availability or otherwise of broadband.
It would be helpful if you would take the time to register on the Registration page of the Cumbria ICT Broadband Initiative website if you have not already done so. |
| By Paul - Dearham on Wednesday, 09 July, 2003 - 01:30 pm: | Can ask a question Jennifer, what are Cumbria ICT's plans for large towns such as Maryport who currently have 190 of the 300 trigger target that BT has set for the exchange but in my opion will probably not reach the trigger point.
I actually live in Dearham and have HomeHighway but when I run a line check the BT site tells me I could "Possible" get asdl, but even then only at 256k. Everyone that has registered from Dearham is in the same situation, but is on the Maryport exchange. Do you have any plans for the areas surrounding Maryport? |
| By Callum from Cockermouth on Wednesday, 09 July, 2003 - 09:18 pm: | Hi Paul,
My name's Callum, campaigner for Broadband4Cockermouth.
Although my campaign for Cockermouth doesn't help you directly, I can give you 2 pieces of advice.
In my opinion Maryport can definately achieve trigger level and probably by Christmas 2003 - all you have to do is campaign for people to sign up - and they will, in good numbers.
BT Wholesale provide a "campaign in a box" that you can use at no cost to you to encourage people to preregister. All you need to do is commit some time.
On 9th July 2003 BT began a Pilot Service to increase the reach of Broadband from exchanges to 6.0km - this is an increase of 0.5km - which may be vital for communities like Dearham. Allowing new access where none was possible before and better speeds for those where a full speed service was not possible.
Unfortunately, the Broadband Availability checker does not yet take into account the new extra 0.5km reach, but you can still preregister and BT will recalculate the preregistration on the new 6.0km calculation.
More news on this can be found here:
http://www.adslguide.org.uk/
Hope that helps.
Kind Regards
Callum MacFarlane
http://www.broadband4cockermouth.co.uk/ |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Friday, 11 July, 2003 - 12:24 pm: | Paul, CIBI has the objective of getting broadband access to up to 90% of people and businesses and while I cannot give any guarantees I would expect places like Maryport and the areas, such as Dearham, which surround it to be covered by that rollout.
So while Callum has given some good advice and I look forward to seeing the Maryport Exchange reach its trigger level, it would also be useful for people in your position to register their interest with CIBI on the Register page of this website. |
| By LDG (ldg) on Wednesday, 16 July, 2003 - 05:14 pm: | Hello All,
Here is some information on a project taking place in Cumbria at present, firstly though I should let you know that I represent a company that successfully provides Broadband for business to all the UK but I will(try)to be unbiased on this part. I have recently provided a broadband connection to a company nr Wigton/Sebergham, they are a local IT company who are setting up a wireless link to allow nearby villages access to broadband. Although as I mentioned before we only supply a business product, we do not discriminate resale of the service for private use. I was extremely impressed with this local company in Wigton for having the foresight to take on this project, I'm sure they won't mind if anyone around that area wants their contact details.
On a seperate note can anyone tell me why ADSL is the only technology mentioned when discussing Broadband, why would anyone want a highly contended product with no service levels given?
The answer evades me!!
LDG |
| By Anonymous on Thursday, 17 July, 2003 - 09:30 pm: | | LDG - a neat pitch to bring your satellite product line into this forum! Difficult to be unbiased though? |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Thursday, 17 July, 2003 - 10:58 pm: | LDG, the reason why ADSL tends to dominate any discussion on broadband is likely to be because that broadband delivery method is the most publicised and possibly the most common.
Part of the point of setting up this forum was to try to encourage users of any type of broadband to share their experiences and help to spread understanding of the options available in terms of broadband delivery methods. Therefore any general input you wish to make on the subject of satellite delivery would be welcomed, however blatant advertising of any individual company's products will not be tolerated. |
| By Paul Fearon (paul) on Thursday, 17 July, 2003 - 11:24 pm: | | I would have thought that Broadband through Satellite systems would not play a major part in the proposed rollout in Cumbria, The one way systems would require a telephone line for the uplink so it would not be an always on solution (my own personal requirement) and the two way Satellite systems would be very expensive! |
| By Anonymous on Friday, 18 July, 2003 - 11:04 am: | | Paul - depending on how far away the CIBI rollout proves to be, satellite may be the only stopgap in some areas? As to whether it's expensive or not, let's challenge LDG and his company to come up with an affordable option for the ADSL deserts of Cumbria! |
| By LDG (ldg) on Friday, 18 July, 2003 - 01:19 pm: | The reason I stated that I work for a sat broadband provider was in fact so that I could take part in this discussion on broadband in the north west and everyone involved would be aware of this from the outset. If anyone has a technical query with any type of broadband access either how to get it or got it already and having problems I will be more than happy to try and help them if I can.
Anonymous as much as I would like to rise to your challenge I would prefer to keep debating Broadband in the North, I have no wish to upset the forum moderators with a cheap advertising plug.
My apologies
LDG |
| By LDG (ldg) on Friday, 18 July, 2003 - 01:24 pm: | The reason I stated that I work for a sat broadband provider was in fact so that I could take part in this discussion on broadband in the north west and everyone involved would be aware of this from the outset. If anyone has a technical query with any type of broadband access either how to get it or got it already and having problems I will be more than happy to try and help them if I can.
Anonymous as much as I would like to rise to your challenge I would prefer to keep debating Broadband in the North, I have no wish to upset the forum moderators with a cheap advertising plug.
My apologies
LDG |
| By LDG (ldg) on Friday, 18 July, 2003 - 01:24 pm: | The reason I stated that I work for a sat broadband provider was in fact so that I could take part in this discussion on broadband in the north west and everyone involved would be aware of this from the outset. If anyone has a technical query with any type of broadband access either how to get it or got it already and having problems I will be more than happy to try and help them if I can.
Anonymous as much as I would like to rise to your challenge I would prefer to keep debating Broadband in the North, I have no wish to upset the forum moderators with a cheap advertising plug.
My apologies
LDG |
| By Sean@Silloth on Sunday, 20 July, 2003 - 11:40 am: | Hello I live in Silloth and I have just registered my interest for broadband access. Towns like Silloth desperatley need broadband access to encourage business to move here. Currently there is only one main employer in the town and the youth are leaving in their droves because there is no work. Silloth desperatly needs redeveloped and potentially could become the bustling little town it used to be in the sixties before the Railway line was dismanteld. I have a 7 month old boy and would like to think he would at least have the option of staying in the town to work which currently the youth of the town do not have. Comments Anyone?!?
Sean. |
| By graham keswick on Sunday, 20 July, 2003 - 06:37 pm: | Just a call to all businesses and home internet users within a 5.5km or 3.4 mile radius of keswick . BT have set a trigger level of 500 users on our exchange and there are 124 people registered.
If you really! want a fast internet connection help yourselves and help the community by registering with your current internet provider or go to www.bt.com/broadband. We only need 376 more people and the town will get broadband. |
| By Paul - Dearham on Monday, 21 July, 2003 - 04:45 pm: | Some day I may learn to check my postings before I send them  |
| By Paul - Dearham on Tuesday, 22 July, 2003 - 10:26 am: | Thanks Jennifer,
Maryport triggered on Thursdey last week, with Cockermouth and Cleator Moor both triggering yesterday. A BIG well done to everyone involved.
Unfortunately though rumour has it, that the surrounding villages will not be able to get even RADSL, due to the condition of the lines surrounding Maryport. We will not know this for certain though until the exchange is Ready For Service and the first of the line checks are carried out.
I will be changing the www.broadband4maryport.co.uk site shortly and asking people to register their interest with you at the same time as with BT, especially if they live in one of the surrounding villages or outside the coverage area of RADSL.
RADSL is of course only 0.5 mb. So if you are going to be offering something a bit more CHUNKY at a reasonable price people are bond to be interested. |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Tuesday, 22 July, 2003 - 02:07 pm: | | Congratualtions to Cockermouth and Cleator Moor on reaching their BT Trigger levels on 21 July. |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Tuesday, 22 July, 2003 - 02:18 pm: | Thanks Paul. Changing www.broadband4maryport.co.ukto encourage people to register with CIBI as well as BT will be very helpful in assisting us in monitoring demand and being aware of those without provision. Unfortunately while it is great to be getting some of the towns enabled it does still leave a lot of people close to those towns without any access.
It is likely that a range of 'service levels' will be available once CIBI begins to see broadband rolling out to provide access to up to 90% of people and businesses in Cumbria. |
| By DigitalDales on Tuesday, 22 July, 2003 - 04:43 pm: | Broadband has been defined since 1984 as >2Mbps - it is only recently when the telcos have failed to find commercially viable solutions at that speed that we have had to suffer a reduction in connectivity speeds to suit them.
However, community networks are now rolling out in towns and villages across this country that offer end users true broadband, using a variety of backhauls - satellite, leased line, shared infrastructure etc, and wireless distribution. This is not only cost-effective but keeps the monies generated within the pockets of the community rather than handing it over to the telcos. Community networks create local jobs, upskill the community, attract new businesses and home owners, and help to diversify away from the ailing tourism and agriculture industries.
If you would like help setting up a community network, the Access to Broadband Campaign http://www.ABCampaign.org.uk and Digital Dales http://www.digitaldales.co.uk are only too willing to share our network of contacts and experts, our experiences with projects such as EdenFaster, Catterick Village network, Arwain, Carnet, Cybermoor, Aberfoyle, etc with any community wishing to take control and not wait for the telcos to act.
Although Project Access should bring broadband to many in Cumbria, there are still communities which will need to act on their own in order to access broadband now. Catterick Village took less than 3 months, and under £5000 to set up, and it not only connects small businesses and residents but also the LearnDirect centre and the community office. You can do it too!! There are lots of resources on the Internet, and a wealth of experience locally to help you bring broadband to your community.
The Govt intend to fund a 'toolkit' to enable communities to DIY broadband, but those who can create this toolkit are ready and willing to help now! |
| By North Cumbria resident on Wednesday, 23 July, 2003 - 10:46 am: | Isn't the reality of the broadband landscape in Cumbria governed by the fact that there are around 70 individual BT physical exchanges, and without massive taxpayers' subsidy BT won't be upgrading most of these in the foreseeable future. Technology, though, moves on swiftly and who knows, ADSL may in any case only be a stopgap whilst a pervasive wireless technology emerges?
In the meantime, can those of us without a hope of anything other than BT dialup for the next 12 - 24 months at least (depending on if/when there is a rollout of Project Access) obtain some sort of affordable alternative - e.g. satellite? This is happening in Wales, where they must have similar problems? Have CIBI looked at this? |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Wednesday, 23 July, 2003 - 11:34 am: | North Cumbria resident, contrary to what many people seem to think, broadband is not just about delivery via the telephone (ADSL). You are correct there are other developing technologies which would provide broadband connections.
The posting by Digital Dales points to wireless possibilites and a level of comfort for those waiting for technology to reach them, if they are willing to get on and do it themselves.
There is an alternative to ADSL currently available in the form of satellite broadband, which can reach almost everyone now. In terms of it being affordable I understand that there are a number of packages available from satellite providers which would give potential users a choice.
If by ‘affordable’ you are referring to some form of subsidy or grant aid for satellite broadband then there is currently no provision for this in Cumbria, either through CIBI or through other public sector agencies.
Finally with regard to the enablement of BT telephone exchanges we have gone from a position three months ago in the county where only four exchanges could provide broadband to one where by the end of October it looks likely that thirteen will be providing broadband and one or two others may achieve their trigger levels and enablement by the end of the year. While this is not ideal and does not solve the problem for the rural areas it is a step forward. |
| By Paul - Dearham on Thursday, 24 July, 2003 - 01:21 am: | I actually tinkered a little with Satellite broadband just before christmas, but to be honest I can't say that I was overly impressed, the idea is good but you still need to have an upload of data, which is most likely, as it was in my case a dial-up account, and so your telephone line is still engaged if you want always on !
The Contention ratio was terrible during the day and download speed would only 128kb level, 3 o'clock in tha morning however was a different story 8mb per second could by acheived.
Of course if you want to play games sattelite is no good at all the ping times being around 700 - 900 ms conpared to ASDL's 20 - 30 ms
Anyway to cut a long story short, the satellite service was ended and I decided to put a bit of effort into getting the maryport exchange activated for ASDL, if it will actually reach our house is another can of worms though.
I might just wait and see what CBI have to offer before I commit myself to a BT based service.
http://www.broadband4maryport.co.uk |
| By Anonymous on Thursday, 24 July, 2003 - 10:26 am: | | Paul - isn't there a good chance that CIBI will turn out to be a "BT based service" anyway? Perhaps CIBI can provide a summary of where the project is in terms of selecting a technology and a service provider? |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Thursday, 24 July, 2003 - 10:36 am: | | Tenders have now been returned and the evaluation process is commencing. |
| By LDG on Thursday, 24 July, 2003 - 10:50 am: | It sounds like you tried a system that has been around for over 15 years or so. Things have moved along since then, just as any other technology does. Broadband is available over satellite both ways with download speeds up to 2mb, Uploads to 512k(no phone line needed) as far as contention ratios how would 8 to 1 down, 4 to 1 up suffice with a service level guarantee included (try asking an ISP for a service level of any description).
These days satellite broadband technology can more than hold it's own against ADSL. One of the problems I have found over the last few years is satellite systems available in the past have been fairly poor(probably an understatement), this has tainted peoples views of the satellite technology available now.
To overcome this biased view, we should take a step back review todays technology, not yesterdays and then present the findings.
There would be many people pleasantly surprised by the findings.
LDG |
| By Paul - Dearham on Thursday, 24 July, 2003 - 01:42 pm: | Sorry, what I meant by a BT based service was a telephone line based service.BT's Mesh wireless system was not what I had in mind.
I would prefer to have wireless over satallite any day, but that is as I said just from a purely games point of view.
http://www.broadband4maryport.co.uk |
| By Paul - Dearham on Thursday, 24 July, 2003 - 01:55 pm: | Whilst CIBI are evaluating the returned tenders, would it be possible to give some idea of what sort of evaluation is going to happen, is the process purely cost based or are other things taken into consideration, could you please let us have a little more information please, Jennifer.
Thanks, Paul.
http://www.broadband4maryport.co.uk |
| By Paul Fearon (paul) on Thursday, 24 July, 2003 - 10:22 pm: | Regarding the proposed technology to be used.
I would of thought that the technology used in the proposed rollout of Broadband would use every possible method accept ADSL (BT), As if your telephone line is either less than 5.5 kilometres and/or your line loss is less than 55 db (soon to be 60 db) you would already be able to have ADSL (BT) based Broadband.
Paul |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Friday, 25 July, 2003 - 10:43 am: | Paul, I am not able to provide more information about the basis of the evaluation at the moment, as soon as I am in a position to do so I will.
With regard to the point raised by the other Paul, about which technology might be used. It is only true that those who meet the criteria you state would be able to have ADSL based broadband if all the telephone exchanges in the county were enabled by BT or a by a company in the business of Local Loop Unbundling. Currently there is no clear indication that we would be in that situation in the foreseeable future. |
| By David from Barbon, Cumbria on Sunday, 27 July, 2003 - 09:12 pm: | Hi -- does anyone know of a way of getting broadband access in the Lune Valley -- I live in Barbon (telephone exchange is the tiny one in Barbon itself) and as we are less than 250 households we'll never make any BT registration threshold !
Radio broadband is a possibility and I would dearly like such a solution. Does anyone know how to contact 'Digitaldales' -- they had a letter in the July 18th Westmorland Gazette but the web link given must have been incorrect.
Thanks,
David Stamp david.stamp@barnrigg.freeserve.co.uk |
| By John from Blawith on Monday, 28 July, 2003 - 12:02 pm: | | Hi - I've just registered my interest in broadband with CIBI. I am renovating a house in Blawith, south lakes and BT has not yet set a trigger level for the local exchange, Lowick Bridge. Jennifer, do you have any idea whether the broadband "roll out" planned for 2004 will include the Lowick exchange? I am relocating to the Lakes from Stockport this summer and will really miss access to ADSL. It will impact both on my professional life (I run a software house comprising 5 staff all of whom work from home and use broadband) and our family life as my wife and children are all used to fast access to the web and e-mail. It's about time the government forced BT to come up with a fixed timetable to broadband enable all its 5600 exchanges. The equipment to do so must be coming down in price all the time and, from a communication point of view, one could argue that the rural environment needs broadband more than the cities that currently have it! |
| By 2.5tdi on Tuesday, 29 July, 2003 - 04:04 pm: | Where can I find out how many registrations of interest have been posted for my exchange? Wigton has a trigger of 500, and I would like to see where it stands at the moment.
Thanks. |
| By 2.5tdi on Tuesday, 29 July, 2003 - 04:07 pm: | OOOPS!!
Just found it - sorry! |
| By Anonymous on Thursday, 31 July, 2003 - 09:49 am: | | It seems that parts of the county can obtain a subsidy from the taxpayer to deliver broadband - I refer to Lillyhall - and good luck to them. For the rest of us I suppose we will have to wait to see if/when the CIBI rollout ever happens? |
| By Paul - Dearham on Sunday, 03 August, 2003 - 10:40 pm: | Just for everyones information.
Exchanges ready for service on 12th November 2003:
Cockermouth and Maryport
Exchanges ready for service on 19th November 2003:
Cleator Moor
http://www.broadband4maryport.co.uk |
| By IWM, West Cumbria on Tuesday, 05 August, 2003 - 12:00 pm: | | Perhaps a silly question as a result of having missed something along the way, but if various exchanges get enabled over the course of the next few months, will this not counter CIBI's work by reducing the demand for their service? |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Tuesday, 05 August, 2003 - 12:26 pm: | IWM, CIBI came into being because it seemed unlikely that the commercial market would provide widespread broadband in Cumbria and although a number of exchanges will be enabled over the coming months to provide ADSL broadband it still seems unlikely that there will be commercial provision beyond the main centres of population. We welcome the provision of any broadband service which will ensure that more people are using it sooner rather than later as having people and businesses using broadband in Cumbria should help to drive further demand for it.
Commercial providers will generally only make broadband available in areas where they feel that there is a business case, which means that the more rural areas, which could benefit greatly(see Broadband Benefits) from having access to broadband, are left behind without input from organisations such as CIBI. |
| By Paul Fearon (paul) on Tuesday, 05 August, 2003 - 12:44 pm: | IWM,
Hopefully the enabling of exchanges will not effect the rollout as I am one of many who are connected to a DSL exchange but because my phone line is of such poor quality I am unable to receive Broadband through BT. (Failed line test three times)!
Paul |
| By Paul - Dearham on Tuesday, 05 August, 2003 - 11:56 pm: | I wonder if anyone can enlighten me a little about this story that appeared on Border TV and on Teletext tonight? Is this anything to do with CIBI?
"TOWNS TO GET CONNECTED
Towns in North Allerdale are to be connected to the broadband network in a boost to the Solway Rural Initiative.
Funding from the Northwest Development Agency and the European Union Regional Development Fund will help install wireless broadband into four locations.
Aspatria, Maryport, Silloth and Wigton will benefit, with Kirkbride and Ireby set to follow."
http://www.broadband4maryport.co.uk |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Wednesday, 06 August, 2003 - 08:24 am: | Paul, what you heard about is a pilot project which has been part funded by the North West Broadband Fund as one of a number of demonstrator projects across the north west. If you have a look at Broadband Availability on the CIBI website you will see a list of some of the others in Cumbria. The objective of the North West Broadband Fund was to assist a number of different types of projects by helping them to get broadband in place and then measure the benefits which having the connectivity brings either to individuals, single businesses, groups of businesses or communities.
All Cumbria based projects approved by the North West Broadband Fund had to fit with the CIBI Action Plan and were seen and approved by the CIBI Steering Group prior to funding being granted. |
| By Paul Buck @ Sheffield Former Penrith Resident on Thursday, 14 August, 2003 - 07:10 pm: | Hello all,
BT's ADSL will be the main method of >512 delivery of broadband access in Cumbria. But for more rural places outside fo places like Keswick, Penrith, etc... Wi-Fi maybe the only option as proven with EdenFaster, we cant expect BT to enable all exchanges as each one needs to meet an set business case. Satellite is not an option for any net access (no offence intended)
yes it can sustain high data speeds but contention and upload are large enough issues to rule it out of any strong broadband rollout.
If anyone else can come up with a better (more cost effective) way to rollout broadband feel free to let us an the rest of Cumbria know!
Kind Regards
Paul |
| By LDG (ldg) on Friday, 15 August, 2003 - 09:22 am: | Paul, I'm afraid I completely disagree with the above statement or at least the last part relating to satellite broadband. We provide a satellite broadband service which gives the end user high speed internet access at contention rates lower than any ADSL connection I have seen available 8-1/4-1 and it's guaranteed. The downside for this area is the service is designed for business use, however their are groups around the UK including the Cumbria area who are smart enough to use our system to deliver the broadband connection to the village and then they are using WiFi kit to distribute around to individual.
This is not fiction it's fact and the technology is here now!
LDG |
| By mike@millhouse on Friday, 15 August, 2003 - 10:55 am: | | What are the chances of ever getting broadband here? Millhouse has only about 15 houses and is a mile & a half from the slightly larger village of Hesket Newmarket & 3 miles from the much larger village of Caldbeck which has a small telephone exchange. I work mainly from home, using the internet a great deal, and also edit a professional publication from my home, and broadband would revolutionise my work. |
| By Tony Morland on Friday, 15 August, 2003 - 02:22 pm: | | Hello everybody, I live just behind the Beacon near Penrith, but I am on the Langwathby exchange , which is about 4 miles away, I also use a shared line which means my top connection speed is never any greater than 28,800bps. It is very frustrating waiting for pages to open, and even worse for files. I WILL subscribe to broadband as soon as I can get it, but not at the cost of satellite. I have heard of ( £800 - £900 for equipment and £60 a month subscription ) |
| By Paul Buck @ Sheffield, Former Penrith Resident on Friday, 15 August, 2003 - 07:14 pm: | Hello Tony,
From what I can see your close the both exchange boundries - http://80.194.16.203/cibi/penrith1.JPG
Someone else nearby want dsl could set up an wi-fi link? Go to an ISP about Exchange Activate? Speak to Mr Satellie above about taking that as an option? Look for an 128k ISDN option? (Not really broadband but BT will have to de-DAC's your line to give you ISDN)
------------------------------------------------
Hello Mike,
From what I can tell your on the Caldbeck exchange and about 4km away from it so pushing line length already for ADSL.
Stats are not looking to good - http://www.adslguide.org.uk/availability/btprereg_history.asp?id=3183
Could start a local campaign to get BT support?
http://62.172.198.79/broadband1/where_i_live/campaigns/index.asp Points you in the right direction.
------------------------------------------------
To LDG
Please get off your high horse please, satellie is not the only solution for rural areas and this board is for disscussion not marketing as far as I can tell.
(No offence ment but some will be taken I am sure.)
Kind Regards to all
Paul |
| By LDG (ldg) on Friday, 15 August, 2003 - 10:06 pm: | Paul,
No offence taken, I think you'll find in my remarks I have been very careful not to mention a suppliers name.
I'm afraid I can't see a problem with providing people with up to date information on new technologies available to them. Your comments were after all incorrect I just had to set the record straight.
My intention wasn't to offend so apologies if it did.
Regards
LDG |
| By ST (luso) on Sunday, 17 August, 2003 - 01:25 am: | No one denies satellite has a place in the broadband arena but it will become, more and more, a niche market.
Realistically, it cannot be seen as a mass market product. It will only be viable on very low density deployments.
As anyone trying to backhaul a rural wifi network will know, 'terrestrial bandwidth' can be very expensive but it's nothing compared to what 'space bandwidth' costs.
Add to the cost the inescapable technical restrictions of using an orbiting satellite and one ends up with a limiting solution that cannot be sustained over a longer term.
Inevitably, the level of compromising required means it can only be seen as a stop-gap alternative.
Luso |
| By CJR on Sunday, 07 September, 2003 - 02:36 am: | If there are any potential ADSL users on the Sellafield Site or in Seascale Village please sign up to the local campaign - http://www.broadband4seascale.wewantbroadband.co.uk/.
Just reading above, I'd gladly settle for wireless or satelite - but due to our businesses location on Sellafield we're unlikely to get either (there are too many large buildings blocking any sort of technology of this kind).
I personally find it ironic that one of the most technologically advanced sites in the country (not to mention the counties' largest employer and most significant to the local economy) doesn't yet have the capacity for broadband and other than ADSL pre-registration there are no concrete plans (that I have seen) for addressing this issue.
I hope that in the near future the broadband stakeholder organisations such as BT, CIBI, and the NWDA will realise that the current and future plans aren't likely to satisfice the problem and that other actions must be taken.
I find it somewhat embarrassing to the county that we can't even manage broadband on our flagship industrial site.
CJR. |
| By Paul @ Sheffield, Former Penrith Resident. on Sunday, 07 September, 2003 - 05:21 am: | Hello,
I was under the impression that Sellafield Plant has broadband access with Norweb Telecom / Your Communications? (Remember reading it somewhere)
"Norweb Telecom has a considerable amount of physical ICT infrastructure in
Cumbria, primarily as a result of servicing BNFL’s operations at Sellafield. Norweb
specialises in providing communications for businesses and other organisations,
such as Cumbria Police. Norweb also provides services directly to customers
around the periphery of the County.
Norweb has a backbone communications ring around the County consisting of fibre and microwave radio systems.
The fibre runs from Kendal to Carlisle via Penrith and to Lillyhall via Barrow.
A 155Mbps radio system completes the ring between Lillyhall and Carlisle,
which at present provides network reliability comparable to fibre systems.
Access to the network through namely, Kendal, Carlisle, Penrith, Lillyhall, Barrow, and Sellafield. One would assume additional access points can be easily provided should adequate customer demand exist."
With regards to getting ADSL, just hope that BT decide you are a worth while business case to be subtended to the Egremont exchange.
Regards
Paul Buck |
| By CJR on Monday, 08 September, 2003 - 06:56 pm: | I think there is a popular misconception about Sellafield, that the only company there is BNFL. When indeed there are probably well over a hundred of varying sizes. We have the likes of BNFL, UKAEA, AEA Technology, Johnson Controls, AMEC, PCR, PPS Electrical, Stobbarts, Cumbrian Industrials, Eurest, Hertel - I could go on for ever.
The situation is perpetuating through outsourcing and optimisation of BNFL to make it more responsive to the commercial world. We are lucky that we have seen local companies recently winning large outsourcing contracts with the likes of BNFL, UKAEA, AEAT etc - keeping the money inside the local economy. Unfortunately, with the margins that these companies must operate in order to compete with the larger firms, investment in IT and Technology is usually the last thing on their minds.
Whilst Your Communications and BT can provide BNFL, AMEC, AEAT, and UKAEA (probably through contractors such as Cap Gemini and CSC) with large scale leased lines - they cannot provide ADSL on site. The whole idea with "broadband" is that it should be affordable - leased lines are cost prohibitive, at least to smaller firms, who’s business aren't regarding IT as a core competence.
This is obviously a short sighted decision on BT's and Your Comms part - I did get in touch with BT some time back to try and get broadband and was told that BNFL had no requirement for ADSL. Going back to the fact that there are many companies on site besides BNFL who have outsourcing contracts (ironically BT has the contract to run the site exchange and wiring) - then I don’t believe BNFL's requirement for ADSL was really a true picture of the potential demand on-site.
I work for a local company, who is itching to offer value added services through its smart investment in IT - in order to compete with the national players and we are being hindered from many angles.
It’s our responsibility to handle our own IT&T, I agree, and we will of course cover this in our overheads. Larger companies on a national scale can spread costs better and can afford a greater investment in IT. Whether they use it to its true potential is subjective, we believe as a smaller company we are more responsive to our client and are likely to move on value added projects faster - providing the price is right. Broadband would allow is to allow our clients to access our database systems and see live management information of their contract with us - giving us a unique transparency that national players would be reluctant to give (as they are busy spreading costs on a national basis)!
Evaluating the alternatives: Leased lines, whether from, would cost tens of thousands a year. Satellite broadband will be not only too slow and lag ridden, but impractical due to our position between concrete buildings. The CC project for rural broadband, which given current technologies will more than likely be based on WiFi and unlikely be allowed to cover the site (for obvious security reasons) - also would be affected by the same buildings.
Therefore the only logical conclusion to receive affordable broadband is that the exchange must be upgraded to ADSL/SDSL. This would mean not only equipment fitted (a DSLAM) to the Seascale exchange, but also I suspect inside the Sellafield exchange too (which is basically a spur – there are fibre optic cables connecting everything so it is possible to do). Of course where the money comes for this is going to be an interesting question!
I do believe though we should let Seascale reach its ADSL trigger (when it is set) so there is some commercial incentive to BT. Then the extra monies required (if any) to get the system working on Sellafield should come from the CC or NWDA in recognition that it is one of our most high tech sites in Cumbria (certainly one of the most famous in the country) and we need to support our smaller local businesses to compete. There is also a potential for some positive publicity for the CIBI, BNFL (who are synonymous with Sellafield anyway) and the small companies on site wanting ADSL – in that case everyone is a winner.
I have suggested to BNFL, BT, CIBI and the NWDA until I’m sick of bothering that we should create some formalised plan and get stakeholders together – but the lack of interest is quite amazing. The CIBI have been the only body who have answered my emails and I think we’ll need to be in touch when Seascale reaches 150 ADSL pre-restraints for ADSL to solve these problems. Nobody in BT seems to know who makes strategic decisions about ADSL either! So for anyone else who is frustrated – you’re certainly not the only one! |
| By CJR on Thursday, 11 September, 2003 - 12:44 pm: | Could I just also add to the debate going on above about satellite bb - the problem of latency with satellite broadband is something that, aside from the cost, is an inhibiting factor.
It is out of the question for where my client is situated on Sellafield anyway. Though when I was evaluating the technology I did realise that the delay in sending the signal up to the satellite, on the net and back, would prohibit me from real time applications such as Voice over IP (we wanted to link our telephone system in another town with ADSL to our site office - we'd have had capacity for free calls between the two, as well as connecting our network!), VPN's are supposed to be out of the question or prone to timing out, internet telephony, and remote assistance (which I use extensively being a contractor myself and would require dedicated modem ISDN access if the broadband wasnt able to cope).
I will concede that there are a number of firms such as Aramiska (sp?) who have developed technologies for reducing the associated problems with satellite bb - though local caching they use only limits the associated problems with web and mail use. So perhaps for firms who only wish to have faster access to those applications and don't want to grow their use of the internet - then the technology is of great benefit. Don't get me wrong, satellite bb has its place, but as an IT professional I don't see it as a solid business tool such as ADSL and certainly not for the businesses I work for as it is not an all-purpose form of bb. I'm sure there will be some contention (sic) with LDG there! Though I’m sure he will agree with my point in the previous message about opening up our live database via the web to our clients, then satellite bb wouldn’t a suitable technology.
I’m beginning to wonder whether affordable, all-purpose bb would be achievable in Cumbria via using more parallel pieces of string between our paper cups?!!! |
| By Peter Hufton (peter) on Saturday, 13 September, 2003 - 04:42 pm: | Broadband for Egremont:
A few weeks back, I sent an e-mail to CBC regarding the take-up of broadband in Egremont. I was (very quickly) contacted by the Market Towns Initiatives Officer for Egremonbt, who gave me a contact name for the guy who is running the campaign for Egremont. Since then, I have changed my computer & lost these contact names..........silly me!!!!!!!!!!
I have, however, looked on the BT website & there is no longer a campaign for egremont. Before I start a campaign, is there any one on this forum who has been involved in the previous campaign, of who can give me any contact names.
Any info would be greatly appreciated |
| By CJR on Saturday, 13 September, 2003 - 09:59 pm: | Pete - I'd go ahead and start it anyway, the BT campaign site is the one most people recognise, if they're not listed on there it doesn't bode well! Also I'd go to http://www.wewantbroadband.co.uk/ and sign up as a broadband sponsor there (it's free) - I think they give you a website and a fair bit of help.
Best of luck! |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Monday, 15 September, 2003 - 04:08 pm: | CJR, have you tried contacting the Economic Development Department at Copeland Borough Council? It may be that they could facilitate discussions between potential providers and the businesses. Carlisle City Council have done something similar with a large business park in their area.
I am consulting with partners within CIBI to see what input we may be able to make. |
| By CJR on Monday, 15 September, 2003 - 08:38 pm: | Haven't tried contacting them as yet - we're busy at the moment and are expanding our premesis and staff numbers. I will then have over 25 users on an ISDN connection, with the pottential for more relatively soon! I will contact them as soon as things quiet down in a few weeks.
I'm looking for IT / Business Development Grants also - if anyone has any ideas on that let me know. We have been part of Wire Up Workington (Business Link) for our Workington site, but was wondering if there is anything in Copeland? |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Tuesday, 16 September, 2003 - 08:20 am: | | CJR, try Business Link as your first port of call for IT/Business Development Grants. Sometimes West Cumbria Development Agency has assistance available as well. If you need any contacts let me know. |
| By barry from Ambleside on Friday, 26 September, 2003 - 06:16 pm: | Dear all
This is my first visit to this forum and it has to be said that most of the posts say why people cannot get broadband. The village of Hawkshead and Ambleside now have broadband as does Alston and various others. These were all done with the help of grants from the NWDA with the exception of Ambleside which is a comercial venture. I believe the way forward in our areas is to use wireless connections and not waiting for BT to get round to the exchanges. Even when the CIBI initiative comes into force, this would mean that you can change the main supplier in your area. Once your online you will change the way you use the interenet. |
| By Kev from Dalston on Saturday, 04 October, 2003 - 11:31 pm: | Arrrrgh the frustration !!!
I've just to moved to Dalston from the south of the country and imagine the horror on finding out there's no broadband access (which i should have guessed really).
I've registered my interest on this site and also on the BT pre-register list but my feeling is I'm going to retire before i get broadband, and that's 35 years away !
I can't see there ever being a large level of local support for broadband amongst the local residents, mainly due the demographics of the area. P'raps i could organise a "Naked Dalston Boy Calendar" in exchange for a signature on a petition :-) |
| By Jeff on Sunday, 05 October, 2003 - 09:07 pm: | | Many would pay good money in order that you don't produce that calendar :o) |
| By Helen Gosforth on Monday, 06 October, 2003 - 11:28 am: | | Can you tell me the results of the OJEc tendering and where CIBI has got to regarding awarding the contracts. I have been told that rollout was expected to begin early in 2004 only there is no news on the site to confirm this. |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Monday, 06 October, 2003 - 11:57 am: | Kev, I can imagine your frustration. I would expect the Dalston area to be part of the 90% which the main CIBI project would roll out to. We are still on target to begin rolling out early in 2004 with completion to the 90% within 12 months.
So make new friends in Dalston and get them to register with CIBI! I reserve judgement on the calendar idea but we are always looking for new ways of raising awareness of broadband and getting people interested!!! |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Monday, 06 October, 2003 - 11:59 am: | | Helen, all that I am able to say at present is that the bids have been returned and are being evaluated. If things stay on course we would hope to have a contract awarded around the turn of the year and for the rollout to begin early in 2004. |
| By Dave from Warnell on Friday, 10 October, 2003 - 09:33 pm: | I live in Warnell, which is several kilometres from the exchange (at Raughton Head). Although I've registered interest both here and with BT, the numbers in this area are very small. What's more, I can't even get ISDN (Home Highway) here, never mind ADSL. Indeed, most people using dial-up connections in this area are already blighted with BT's use of DACS to multiplex voice communications down a standard copper line. So, the maximum connection speed I usually achieve is 28.8 kbps.
If I thought I was close enough to Dalston to make any difference, I'd seriously consider joining Kev in his "Naked Dalston Boy Calendar" proposition to drum up support. Sadly, however, we're some distance from any exchange.
So much for the communications revolution! |
| By Anonymous on Tuesday, 28 October, 2003 - 06:40 pm: | LOW MORESBY & MORESBY PARKS
Hi,
I live in Low Moresby and am not able to receive Broadband. I registered to Broadband through Tiscali because it said that my area was able to receive broadband, but it turned out that I was too far away from the exchange.
If anyone else is interested in getting broadband in Low Moresby & Moresby Parks then please leave a message in this forum with - LOW MORESBY & MORESBY PARKS on the top line. |
| By Anonymous on Tuesday, 28 October, 2003 - 06:50 pm: | LOW MORESBY & MORESBY PARKS
I tried to become a campaigner on the BT website but because Whitehavens and my area code is the same, I was unable to sign up.
If anyone else is interested in getting broadband in Low Moresby & Moresby Parks then please leave a message in this forum with - LOW MORESBY & MORESBY PARKS on the top line. Please also provide your phone number (inc area code) & postcode. |
| By Frank on Tuesday, 28 October, 2003 - 07:28 pm: | Low Moresby & Moresby Parks
Hi
I'm in Moresby Parks, BT.com teased me the last time i checked by saying i might be able to get BB, but i can't.
Can anyone in Moresby Parks get BB? |
| By Paul Fearon (paul) on Wednesday, 29 October, 2003 - 12:43 am: | Low Moresby & Moresby Parks
Hi,
I am a resident of Moresby Parks and have applied for Home Highway twice and Broadband three times but my line is of such poor quality it keeps failing the line test!
(I know of one person in Moresby Parks that has Broadband)
I have emailed BT on a number of occasions pointing out that Broadband has been supplied to at least one person in the village and asking them why they can’t supply it to me?
But all I ever get back is an email explaining the technical limitations of supplying ADSL if your line length is over 5.5 kilometres.
My only hope now is the CIBI Broadband Initiative!
Paul. |
| By Paul on Sunday, 02 November, 2003 - 07:16 pm: | I live in Little Corby on the Wetheral exchange.
Is there any chance that the CIBI scheme might reach residents here?
Paul |
| By Anonymous on Monday, 03 November, 2003 - 10:26 pm: | Just wondered if there is any info about the campaign for the Egremont exchange and what the ETA is on gettign broadband?
James |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Tuesday, 04 November, 2003 - 01:03 pm: | | Paul, I would expect that Great Corby would be covered by the rollout of CIBI's Project Access although I cannot give any guarantees at this time. |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Tuesday, 04 November, 2003 - 01:22 pm: | Anonymous, Egremont currently has 279 pre-registrations out of the 350 needed by BT before they will consider upgrading the telephone exchange to provide ADSL broadband. The rate of registrations over the last couple of months seems to be around 25 per month. If it continues at that rate it looks like it will be 2 to 3 months before the trigger level is met. Then BT set a ready for service date for the exchange which is usually about 12 weeks after the trigger level is reached. So the end of April is a potential date for the exchange being enabled.
Mike Brockbank is the campaign co-ordinator and can be reached by email mbrockbank@copelandbc.gov.uk or visit the website Egremont Today |
| By Paul @ Sheffield, Former Penrith Resident on Monday, 01 December, 2003 - 09:27 am: | Workington has become the latest beneficiary of an initiative to close the digital divide between country and city, following the installation of innovative broadband wireless technology by United Utilities-owned telecoms company, Your Communications.
The project sees local businesses benefit from high speed 'always on' Internet access, combined with the delivery of competitively priced conventional telephony, data services and video conferencing from an alternative operator.
Available to companies on the Lillyhall Industrial Estate & Business Park in Workington, subscribers to the service so far include businesses ranging from global manufacturing operations, such as Hydro Ellay Enfield to start-up business, the entrepreneurial direct marketing agency, Source Management.
Labour MP for Workington, Tony Cunningham, welcomed the arrival of broadband at Lillyhall, saying: "It's great news for the area, which has long been crying out for a high speed broadband service. Its installation will not only make a big difference to companies already operating in the area but will prove essential to Cumbria's success in attracting businesses to the area."
Dick Cuckson, development manager at Cumbria County Council, added: "In business terms, the region has traditionally been seen as the black hole between Manchester and Glasgow but this kind of improvement to the infrastructure of the area means that there is a hard economic case for basing operations here which businesses can no longer afford to ignore."
Strategic account executive at Your Communications, Mark Watts, said: "The beauty of wireless broadband as a high speed solution is that it is an elegant way of delivering 'broadband access' not only to the Internet but also to voice and data services.
"Companies are finding that broadband access effectively pays for itself because of the cost savings they can make on phone bills, leased line connections, web hosting and so on. Connection is faster and cheaper than the installation of fibre or point to point radio solutions, and by using wireless technology to connect customers to the Your Communications network, it means access to competitive rates on the full range of business telecoms services."
Joint funded by the European Regional Development Fund and Lillyhall Partnership (made up of Cumbria County Council, the West Cumbria Development Fund and the North West Development Agency), the project was designed in the context of wider Cumbrian e-commerce and regeneration schemes and comes under the umbrella of the part-Government funded Wired-up business Communities (WubC) initiative, aiming to bring broadband to disadvantaged areas.
Your Communications won the bid to deliver broadband to Workington with its wireless solution. The telco has pioneered high speed broadband wireless access in the UK, investing £9 million in regional licences for the North West, West Midlands, Yorkshire and the North three years ago.
Copyright Your Communications - United Utilities. |
| By David from Burgh by sands on Monday, 01 December, 2003 - 06:29 pm: | | I've registered on BT and CIBI. Trigger level is 200. Registrations at 44. Does anyone have any more information on the progress and prospects for broadband in Burgh by Sands |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Monday, 08 December, 2003 - 10:08 am: | | David, At this time I cannot say exactly which areas CIBI's Project ACCESS will cover when it begins rolling out next year. Have you tried the Solway Rural Broadband Initiative which got funding from NWDA and Europe to pilot a combined satellite and wireless broadband solution in North Allerdale? You can find details at Solway Pages |
| By Anonymous on Tuesday, 16 December, 2003 - 02:18 pm: | | How about Broadband for Calthwaite? |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Wednesday, 17 December, 2003 - 11:48 am: | Anonymous, You may have seen the latest news about CIBI's Project ACCESS on the home page of this website. With approval now from the European Commission we are able to move forward on ensuring that at least 90% of people and businesses in Cumbria get access to affordable broadband. At this time I cannot say exactly which areas Project ACCESS will cover when it begins rolling out early next year, but I would hope that the Calthwaite area would be included. If you keep checking back with the website we will start to flag up the areas which will be included once everything is agreed.
If you haven't done so already visit the register page and register your interest in having broadband. |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Thursday, 18 December, 2003 - 07:30 pm: | | It is good news that there is a campaign to enable the Lorton exchange, and people can take advantage of the opportunity to register with that campaign as well as registering with CIBI |
| By Anonymous on Tuesday, 30 December, 2003 - 03:27 pm: | I understand that Cumbria isn't exactly bustling with many technology savvy people - but doesn't a technology neutral tender leave the project open to a lot of abuse and just further affirm to the company who’s been signed up that they have basically been awarded a blank cheque.
There are numerous examples of companies AND government bodies signing up for turkey projects such as the new computerised air traffic control system and London Ambulance control system which are examples used on many Computing Science degrees et al. The great majority of technology projects fail because of the lack of technical expertise on the side of the customer, without it how do you plan to challenge the supplier to make sure you're getting a good solution?
How are you going to safeguard the project, from this type of fate? Commercially speaking it looks increasingly likely that BT can now roll out further ADSL exchanges through cheaper exchange technologies (their last review has made a lot more exchanges active) and the freeing up of the 5 Ghz band today by OFTEL means those that it couldn't reach before will be able to buy standard equipment from places like Currys in less than 12 months anyway.
I'm sure you're not yet in a position at the moment to tell us what technologies will be used in project access (if you cannot either tell us what areas will have the system implemented) - but has the tender specified whether they going to be off the shelf or bespoke? At the moment an ADSL modem can be picked up for around £25 - and are still coming down due to the fierce competition - much the same for
802.11b/g wifi hardware. Assuming project access is built on provider supplied hardware this will effectively mean any charge can be made.
How many times have companies been set up by individuals who are well aware of the failings with the European and NWDA sponsorship systems, to cash in on this type of project. What are the measures to stop the company with the tender making half hearted roll out attempts and then closing down (with huge dividends to the directors) and blaming competition from BT? |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Wednesday, 31 December, 2003 - 01:00 pm: | I will provide a fuller answer to the questions posed by Anonymous but I think that it is important to answer one specific point quickly. That is the one about companies which he/she implies are set up under funding regimes but which then close down.
Project ACCESS will not bring any new company into being. Project ACCESS is a commercial contract which has been put out to tender to existing companies and those which have bid and have been shortlisted have been checked out to ensure their viability. |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Friday, 02 January, 2004 - 10:53 am: | Anonymous, Project ACCESS has been designed in such a way that the company which is awarded the contract will not be in a monopolistic position and there are already a number of local and national ‘last mile’ providers waiting in the wings to provide broadband services across the county on the back of Project ACCESS.
The process through which Project ACCESS has been developed and the fact that CIBI has always had technical experts as part of its Steering Group should ensure that we do get a good solution for Cumbria.
While we would all like to think that commercial providers could and would roll out solutions to meet the needs of at least 90% of people and businesses in Cumbria, the reality is that we have not yet seen them rushing to do so in rural areas where there is less likely to be an acceptable return on their investment. It is for this reason that CIBI was set up, intervention, in some form, is likely to be required to ensure that Cumbria is not left behind in anyway and that a timely broadband solution is delivered for the county.
The tender process is well advanced and before too long we will be able to provide information about the technology(s) to be used as well as the areas which will be included in the Project ACCESS coverage. A great deal of work has gone into the development of Project ACCESS and into trying to ensure that an affordable solution is made available for the people of Cumbria.
This is a very large and complex project and not easily explained through a discussion forum or email, so if you would like to discuss it further then please contact me directly and I will arrange a meeting to clarify issues for you. My email is j.holliday@cibi.org.uk and the telephone number is 07976 062189. |
| By a Baycliff resident on Monday, 05 January, 2004 - 06:08 pm: | | is there any chance of the bardsea exchange being upgraded? as ulverston which is only 5 miles away has it (i know thats not a reason but its still irritating as my mates have it but i dont) |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Monday, 05 January, 2004 - 06:28 pm: | Baycliff Resident, Bardsea telephone exchange has a trigger level which is always good to see and out of the 150 needed it seems that there are 71 registrations at this point in time. I would think that Bardsea stands a reasonable change of getting broadband via the telephone but it is a question of how long it will take to hit the trigger level.
If broadband does not come via the telephone exchange in the next year I would hope that CIBI's Project ACCESS would deliver broadband to that area, although we cannot yet say which areas will be included in the 90% plus.
So make sure you are registered through the CIBI website www.cibi.org.uk/register.asp |
| By Anonymous on Wednesday, 07 January, 2004 - 12:51 pm: | Hi Jennifer,
I keep popping back to the forum to check on how things are going... I just wondered if broadband over powerlines will be looked at? I work for a university and help manage the CANLMAN and CLEO networks and because of this I was offered the chance to put the broadband over powerline technology to the test recently. After taking into account some of the draw-backs and technical problems we still thought that it was quite impressive. Could this be a method of getting services to remote rural locations?... Knowing that you'll have already looked at this I'm curious as to your view and also if any vendors (Like Scottish Power) have shown any interest in your project(s).
Thanks in advance and well done with the superb work to date! |
| By Ian Walker on Friday, 09 January, 2004 - 05:57 pm: | Broadband has come to Brampton and Walton.
It is provided by Cumbria Software Systems Ltd and uses a the new 5.8GHz band C radio. I think this technology will allow commercial broadband to spread quite quickly now. |
| By Darren - Lorton on Friday, 16 January, 2004 - 10:38 pm: | LORTON UPDATE
The campaign is slowly increasing the numbers and we have managed to more than double registrations in less than 6 weeks to 30 - only another 70 to go. |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Tuesday, 20 January, 2004 - 09:49 am: | Anonymous, thanks for your kind words and for returning to CIBI’s website.
You are quite right broadband over powerlines could be a method of getting services to remote rural locations and we are certainly keeping an eye on what is happening elsewhere. A number of companies showed interest in Project ACCESS and we are now negotiating with those short-listed. As far as the technology is concerned we have left the whole process technology neutral. |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Monday, 26 January, 2004 - 09:04 am: | | Paul, having looked at the link you suggest I was not able to determine which three exchanges you are referring to as being enabled via One NorthEast. I also noted that the timetable for the work One NorthEast is commissioning has a very similar timescale to that of Project ACCESS. As you are aware Northwest Development Agency (NWDA) is fully funding Project ACCESS which is also an ambitious programme aiming to get broadband to at least 90% of people in Cumbria in a co-ordinated way rather than a piecemeal approach of funding the enablement of the odd exchange here and there as has happened in some areas. |
| By Anonymous on Thursday, 29 January, 2004 - 10:37 am: | | Interesting that Keswick has got its ready for service date having triggered on 12 January, while Seascale, which triggered 12 days earlier has not. |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Thursday, 29 January, 2004 - 12:32 pm: | Paul, thanks for the update.
CIBI continues to try to work with as many players in the broadband field as possible and we make our views known to BT and others on all matters relating to broadband issues in Cumbria. |
| By Paul on Saturday, 31 January, 2004 - 07:55 pm: | | If you live within the catchment area of Wetheral Exchange, just thought I'd let everyone know that we have reached our trigger level and broadband is on its way. |
| By Paul @ Sheffield, Former Penrith Resident. on Wednesday, 04 February, 2004 - 02:45 am: | Hello all,
26th May 2004;
Seascale
9th June 2004;
Braithwaite
Croglin
Threlkeld
Only Miliom and Weatheral waiting now & anymore that hopefully trigger soon. |
| By Chris Rogan on Thursday, 19 February, 2004 - 11:10 pm: | 26th May 2004 for Seascale was somewhat disappointing to me after meetings with BT who were talking about pushing it through more quickly! Their rule of thumb is apparently ten weeks from trigger to actual RFS - so the end of May was a big let down!
I've been in discussion with other peers on Sellafield about now getting the exchange now enabled for SDSL and am drumming up demand (which is really BT's job but they have gone quiet on me!) - if anyone is interested please contact me via Jennifer. This service is obviously more for businesses in the area around Sellafield/Seascale.
I'd also be interested to hear from anyone managing office space for BNFL (ie renting out office space) or to any of the other companies on-site which currently connects via leased lines etc. SDSL could provide significant cost savings and allow rented offices with the service enabled to undercut other areas which aren't enabled.
I'd also like to point out that over the many months or years of seeing this site, it finally looks as if the county has started to get there. I must say a big well done to everyone who's ran the local exchange campaigns and a “keep up the good work” to everyone else who is waiting - it will happen (eventually).
Though only in this country would ordinary people themselves have to act as the sales force for the monopoly telecommunications company by promoting the technology for them. It shows how a few people who know about new technologies can have a cascade effect on everyone around them and really start the ball rolling, but it also shows BT up to some degree as this has not been the situation with the rest of Europe - especially in Germany. I do hope in the future that new telecommunications technologies are actually driven by providing companies in partnership with the enthusiasts rather than just leaving them to it.
On that point I must note that Eclipse broadband have been an excellent promoter of broadband ADSL and have but BT to shame - www.wewantbroadband.co.uk has been widely acclaimed as has their support to local exchange campaigns, this company deserves every success in the future. |
| By Paul on Wednesday, 25 February, 2004 - 07:03 pm: | Update on Broadband for Wetheral Campaign.
Just want to let people in the Wetheral exchange area know that broadband will be here on 30 June 2004.
Many thanks to everyone that registered and made it all possible
Paul Bacon
Broadband for Wetheral
http://www.wetheral.wewantbroadband.co.uk/ |
| By Richard, Low Moresby on Friday, 27 February, 2004 - 04:01 pm: | | Is there any chance at all that villages like Low Moresby will ever get Broadband? I think wireless would be the only answer for us, but who is willing to supply? |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Friday, 27 February, 2004 - 10:48 pm: | | Richard, while I can make no guarantees, I am sure that most villages in Cumbria will get access to broadband, it is a matter of time. Through Project ACCESS we will provide access for at least 90% of people and CIBI will continue to seek solutions, wireless or otherwise, for those areas where demand is demonstrated. So if you haven’t done so already help Low Moresby by registering with CIBI on the CIBI website registration page |
| By Chris Rogan on Wednesday, 03 March, 2004 - 06:55 pm: | | Jennifer - is there any chance of you producing a map of Cumbria broadband demand that you have captured, perhaps you could also get BT's triger figures off adslguide.org.uk or something too and then put the map on the CIBI website. Would be interesting to see and would help people who were promoting broadband in certain areas. I believe there area software packages and add-ons for Excel that make demographic data like that relatively easy to produce. |
| By Stephen, Gilgarran on Wednesday, 03 March, 2004 - 11:15 pm: | Hi
I have read and heard people talking about the Lillyhall Broadband Initiative. It appears this is a wireless-based system that provides conectivity to customers in a 3 mile radius of Lillyhall. Does anybody have any information on how to contact the LBI or whether small villages like Gilgarran, Pica and Moresby Parks are technically within the Lillyhall reception area ?
I would hate to think a 155Mbs link is passing through the air outside my back door without my knowing!!
Steve |
| By Chris Rogan on Sunday, 07 March, 2004 - 04:25 pm: | Steve - I've heard those rumours too! Lillyhall has been a node for a while if they're true. Business Link told me that there was some kit put there for the new business park and for the likes of WCC and Pecheney to connect to broadband and that was over a year ago when I heard.
The system was implemented by Your Communications (http://www.yourcommunications.co.uk/main.asp?page=305)- looks as if it has been a council thing http://www.cumbria.gov.uk/news/2003/3007b.asp perhaps you could contact the people named on that form? |
| By Mark from St Bees on Friday, 12 March, 2004 - 06:57 pm: | A lot of St Bees residents are having trouble getting broadband as the Egremont exchange is some distance away. However, some people have obtained it.
Can anything else be done as someone mentioned earlier as the exchange has it - it is then left - Is that the end - or can something else be done? |
| By Barry Smith from the Dialup wilderness on Friday, 12 March, 2004 - 09:08 pm: | I opened my Whitehaven news (February 28th)to find a 'nice' glossy on Broadband and its arrival via the CIBI project in March 2004. This date secretly slipped to Spring 2004 on the website, which could be anywhen.
We're in March now and I'm not reading the good news that CIBI has activated any villages. Will it happen or is it just a BT sponsored hoax. Your comments please..... |
| By Chris Rogan on Sunday, 14 March, 2004 - 02:43 pm: | Thanks for that Eddie - was also interested in seeing Jennifers data as it not using BT's demand mapping and more her own work. Co-incidently I know a consultant demographer in London and he should be able to assist us - if you want to get in touch over that one Jennifer?
Mark from St Bees - what you should do is call BT on 150 I think it is (general engineering enquiries I think you need). Ask for your line to be re-routed for broadband, I'm told (but double check) that this is free and it helps if someone nearby currently has broadband but you are told you can't. What happens is that with older lines the routes taken by the copper can go long routes and therefore have more loss in them, as the network has been expanded there is some shorter routes and asking them to reroute your line means the wires get shorter and your line loss comes down, hopefully to get you in the threshold to get broadband...! Would be interested in hearing if that works, post again in the forum if you try it. |
| By Tony Bunce on Thursday, 18 March, 2004 - 09:09 pm: | Dear all,
Six months ago I had the pleasure of receiving a reply from my local MP on the subject of broadband.
It appears that he fully supports the broadband initiative (CIBI) and but its apparent that he was lied to regarding its onset. He details that the scheme would rollout out in March 2004. With 12 days left this is highly unlikely. Like Barry from the dialupwilderness, I am very disappointed with CIBI. I delivered their leaflets to the good citizens of Gosforth and informed them of this great scheme, yet it appears to of died a death. Even the administrators of the website can't be bothered to keep us informed. Whats happening. Have you taken the money and run. Please tell us. Be open and honest, if you're not going to meet the target, be up front and say so. I'll buy a satellite dish.... |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Thursday, 18 March, 2004 - 10:39 pm: | Barrry and Tony, no-one at any time has been lied to about the activities of CIBI or Project ACCESS. We have always been as honest as we could about the expected commencement date of roll out. Anyone who has been involved with any project knows it is always possible that there may be some slippage. Project ACCESS is a huge and complex project which has had go through an arduous process and yes it has slipped, but that slippage can be tracked through the updates posted on the website, we have never tried to hide it.
The project has not died a death and we will ensure that the website is updated when there is something new that we are able to announce. The tender process is confidential and there is a limit to what information can be released until the contract is awarded.
CIBI is grateful for the assistance and supportive attitude we have had from Tony and others across the county in raising awareness and support for CIBI and Project ACCESS and although waiting is frustrating we ask for a little more patience until we are able to make the appropriate announcements about the roll out. |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Thursday, 18 March, 2004 - 10:42 pm: | | Chris, I hope that we can put a map of the data collected onto the website, but we will not be able to do so until after the contract for Project ACCESS is awarded. |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Thursday, 18 March, 2004 - 10:46 pm: | | Mark, I hope that through the roll out of Project ACCESS we will be able to overcome the situation you have described. |
| By thinkbroadband.com on Monday, 22 March, 2004 - 12:55 am: | Paul,
Yeah, Caldbeck has been another great success - Flookburgh expected to be next. Many thanks to you and Sam for keeping an eye on us up here!
Kind regards
Richard Culley
thinkbroadband.com - Bringing Broadband to Cumbria & The Lakes |
| By thinkbroadband.com on Tuesday, 23 March, 2004 - 09:52 pm: | Flookburgh (LCFLO) now triggered!
Regards
Richard Culley
thinkbroadband.com - Bringing Broadband to Cumbria & The Lakes |
| By Anonymous on Wednesday, 24 March, 2004 - 04:13 pm: | Who knows maybe Bassenthwaite Lake will be next...
I can't understand the problem with Wigton and Aspatria both have the population to do this. |
| By thinkbroadband.com on Wednesday, 24 March, 2004 - 05:22 pm: | | Kirkby Lonsdale (LCKLE) today! 7 in Cumbria awaiting RFS dates. |
| By thinkbroadband.com on Friday, 26 March, 2004 - 12:02 am: | Kirkby Thore (LCKTH) triggered today - Bassenthwaite Lake shortly! New RFS dates for Lorton (LCLOR) - 21/07/04 and Shap (LCSHA) - 04/08/04, so now 6 awaiting RFS dates.
Regards
Richard Culley
thinkbroadband.com - Bringing Broadband to Cumbria & The Lakes |
| By Anonymous on Friday, 26 March, 2004 - 01:27 pm: | | Come on Bassenthwaite Lake daddy would like broadband |
| By Carlisle Resident on Friday, 26 March, 2004 - 05:58 pm: | | Just had an interesting 2 hours on the phone to BT, actually in several phone calls I spent about 20 mins in conversation and the rest of the time queuing. I posted on this site some time ago about broadband access being unavailable in the Sandsfield Park(my area), Bellevue and The Beeches areas of Carlisle. Apparently BT have changed some cabling so that the beeches can now get broadband, both of my friends in this area have had broadband for a few weeks now having previously been told that they were outside the 6km limit. With this in mind I phoned BT broadband sales who got me to ring 151 and arrange for a "Rat test" and also a Db test, this was done and the rat test came back as 5.6 km and the Db test was good, although he didnt give me the figures. He said phone BB sales and they will sort you out, this I did and got connected to a lady who put me on hold for ages before coming back and telling me that although 5.6 km is less than 6 km (is it really?)I could not have broadband because I was too far from the exchange! I of course tried to tell her that if the limit was 6km and I was 5.6 km away then the reason I could not get broadband couldnt be down to the line length, her response was adamant, I was too far away, she could give no other explanation. Can anyone out there suggest any thing I can do or anyone I can speak too in order to find out what the problem is? |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Friday, 26 March, 2004 - 07:06 pm: | | Carilisle Resident, try contacting other ISPs to see if you can get a connection through them. I have heard of cases similar to yours where people have managed to get a connection through another ISP rather than directly through BT. Please let me know how you get on. |
| By Anonymous on Saturday, 27 March, 2004 - 09:38 am: | | BASSENTHWAITE LAKE TRIGGERED TODAY!! |
| By Tony Bunce on Monday, 29 March, 2004 - 09:39 pm: | The race is on!! Will Gosforth get its 62 registrations before CIBI rolls out? (ha ha) If the time taken for the negotiation stage is anything to go by, the shortlisted companies should have been given the push. I'm banking on March 2005 for BT activation, 1 year nearer my grave.....
yippee!!! |
| By thinkbroadband.com on Thursday, 01 April, 2004 - 09:38 pm: | New ready for service dates:
Bassenthwaite Lake - 07/07/04
Caldbeck - 30/06/04
Kirkby Lonsdale - 30/06/04
Regards
Richard Culley
thinkbroadband.com - Bringing Broadband to Cumbria & The Lakes |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Tuesday, 06 April, 2004 - 08:22 am: | | For your information, Lazonby exchange hit its BT trigger level over night. |
| By Anonymous on Wednesday, 07 April, 2004 - 12:09 am: | | Beckermet now reached it's trigger level and Grasmere only needs 6 more |
| By thinkbroadband.com on Wednesday, 07 April, 2004 - 08:52 am: | Anonymous, thank you for the update.
Just to give everyone the full picture of ADSL progress in Cumbria I thought I'd provide the following information:-
12 telephone exchanges in build (RFS dates set).
6 telephone exchanges triggered and awaiting RFS dates.
56 telephone exchanges gathering registrations.
Grasmere (LCGRS) to trigger shortly. BT are going to be busy in Cumbria!
Regards
Richard Culley
thinkbroadband.com - Bringing Broadband to Cumbria & The Lakes |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Wednesday, 07 April, 2004 - 11:13 am: | Thanks to everyone for their updates on the ADSL broadband situation and congratualtions to those who have worked hard to get to this stage.
To just add to Richard's comments, there are now 17 exchanges in the county providing ADSL broadband, but still 14 which have not been given a trigger level.
We must keep up the momentum and ensure that more broadband is made available throughout the county using all available technologies to ensure that those who want it and are unable to get connected via ADSL can get it. |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Friday, 16 April, 2004 - 04:19 pm: | | For your information Rockcliffe (Carlisle) exchange reached its BT trigger level this afternoon, 16 April 2004 |
| By Anonymous on Saturday, 17 April, 2004 - 03:27 pm: | | what is the chances of the langwathby exchange geting broadband. |
| By Anonymous on Monday, 19 April, 2004 - 12:38 am: | http://www.samknows.com/broadband/detail.php?exch=2327
http://www.adslguide.org.uk/availability/btprereg_history.asp?code=LCLNB
Exchange Name: Langwathby
BT Exchange Code: LCLNB (Region: North West)
Last Update: Thursday, 15 April 2004
State: Gathering Registrations
Trigger Point: 200
Registrations: 123 (61%)
Predicted Trigger Date: July, 2004
Your 61% to reaching your trigger level. Your 5th in Cumbria's top ten to trigger level.
Brampton 298 registered (trigger level 350) 85.14%
Arnside 317 registered (trigger level 400) 79.25%
Bardsea 96 registered (trigger level 150) 64.00%
Sedbergh 249 registered (trigger level 400) 62.25%
Langwathby 123 registered (trigger level 200) 61.50%
Gosforth 92 registered (trigger level 150) 61.33%
Calthwaite 59 registered (trigger level 100) 59.00%
Burton-in-Kendal 199 registered (trigger level 350) 56.86%
Crosby-On-Eden 56 registered (trigger level 100) 56.00%
Pooley Bridge 56 registered (trigger level 100) 56.00% |
| By Anonymous on Thursday, 22 April, 2004 - 12:09 am: | Jennifer,
I'm sorry to say that this is getting really, really, boring now. Another 3 weeks have passed without a murmur.
Whats the hold up. I can accept slippage, I know contracts take time for legal bods to read but the time delays are just getting silly. We have passed way way beyond slippage, we're now on oil slicks.. There will come a point where CIBI won't be needed, as BT will have activated the exchanges as they already plan to do. Is this the CIBI plan. |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Friday, 23 April, 2004 - 10:31 am: | Anonymous, I understand your frustration and CIBI certainly shares it. We had hoped that things would have moved forward more swiftly, however whenever large sums of public money are being spent on complex projects a high level of care must be taken otherwise we are left open to further criticism should anything go wrong.
Certainly BT will probably enable a number of exchanges before Project ACCESS is delivered and we welcome that action. What we need to bear in mind is many exchanges in Cumbria do not even have trigger levels and that even when an exchange reaches its trigger level and is enabled not everyone on that exchange is able to receive the service. Therefore another solution is necessary to overcome the ‘divide’ which is created. |
| By GDM/Chesterholm on Friday, 23 April, 2004 - 09:09 pm: | i live in sandsfield park carlisle and have tried to get broadband for ages now BT just tell me im to far away from the exchange and they have no plans to do anything about this
WHAT CAN I DO? |
| By Barry Smith from the Dialup wilderness on Monday, 26 April, 2004 - 09:48 pm: | Dear Dr Jack Cunningham, (and Anonymous)
10 months ago, I too had the pleasure of receiving a reply from you on the subject of broadband.
It appears again that you fully support the broadband initiative (CIBI) and but its apparent that you have gravely misunderstood what the project was about and its intended timescales. You again detail that the scheme "WILL", (not should, could, maybe or possibly) rollout out in March 2004, (not Spring 2004 which could be any when...)
Well Dr Cunningham, as my local elected government representative, I have the unfortunate task of informing you that Broadband has not arrived in my village, nor has it arrived in any other district via the CIBI project.
Therefore, I would like to request your assistance in opening negotiations with British Telecom on lowering the trigger levels for unactivated districts. I'm sure with your help, by being interviewed on TV regarding the matter and visiting those remaining villages within
your constituency, they will be triggered.
I know that I speak on behalf of very many disappointed computer users across Cumbria that have put their full weight and support behind Broadband and the CIBI project. But frankly this support has certainly worn thin after such delays and no end in sight.
Dr Cunningham, "We" (TAX-PAYERS) would appreciate your comments... |
| By Posted by Stephen on behalf of Tony Bunce on Monday, 26 April, 2004 - 10:41 pm: | man.co.uk
Fwd:
Dear Barry,
I certainly share your sentiments on the timeliness of the CIBI project.I am sure there are many people who have both anger and resentment towards BT and CIBI.
I gather from the tone of your email that you are becoming overly stressed by the lack of CIBI progess.
I would like to suggest that you don't check the BT and CIBI website as often as you are currently doing, (possibly everyday) because all that happens is you become more embittered at the lack of progress of both.
I suggest that you or preferably a friend should check in once a fortnight, and see that theres nothing new added by the project leaders.
You'll be amazed at how time flies when you only check the website once a fortnight to a month...and unsurprised that theres no more progress.
Barry, take it from me, avoid visiting this website like the plague, forget you heard about the project and accept that it will be December 2005 when it arrives. Its the only way... getting stressed will only lead to your early demise.
Finally, read a book on hostage taking by John mCCarthy. He remained in solitary confinement for 5 and 1/2 years in a room as big as a toilet. A spiritual journey where you'll learn the true meaning of patience...
Regards,
Tony Bunce |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Tuesday, 27 April, 2004 - 07:56 am: | As I have said previously CIBI shares the frustration of the lack of broadband roll out progress demonstrated in postings on this discussion forum.
We have always tried to be honest in terms of the information on the website regarding the timescales for Project ACCESS. There has been slippage and no-one regrets that more than CIBI.
It would have been fairly meaningless to post updates on a weekly basis when in a project of this complexity it is not uncommon for little or no progress to be made in a week. |
| By Anonymous on Tuesday, 27 April, 2004 - 08:52 am: | from http://www.samknows.com/broadband/index.php
BT have this morning announced that they are to scrap the preregistration scheme and replace it with a pre-ordering system.
Some people have suggested that the preregistration scheme has begun running out of steam. It seems that BT have taken a similar view - "We would not be able to bring broadband to exchanges serving 99.6% of UK homes by Summer 2005 if we maintained the registration scheme". Yes, the target is 99.6% ADSL based coverage as revealed earlier last week. The remaining 0.4% will be covered with alternative technologies. Furthermore, they state that a planned rollout, rather than a triggering system, allows them to "adopt the best options and engineering solutions to deliver broadband to people connected to all these exchanges faster".
The replacement for the pre-registration scheme is the pre-order scheme. At the end June this year, BT will announce a rollout programme for the remaining exchanges with triggers. These will be given RFS dates automatically. The Q&A document supplied to campaigners seems to suggest that the 150 day limit on pre-ordering broadband before the RFS date will be removed, so as to allow customers to order as soon as their date is released. The document also seems to suggest that there will still be a place for campaigners who "wish to continue the drive for broadband take up in their communities". Details of their continued involvement are not yet available.
Exchanges which have triggered and are without RFS dates, and those above 90% registrations (42 exchanges), will be given RFS dates automatically over the coming weeks. These 42 exchanges which fall inside the 90% bracket will be the only ones. All the others from now on will end up in the new pre-ordering scheme. I'll try and get an official list of the exchanges above 90%, but as I said, I make the list to be 42.
The remaining 565 (figure quoted from BT) exchanges without trigger level will not be included in the rollout - "BT will continue to seek to work with public sector and other organisations to help bring broadband to these areas. Possible solutions include BT’s Exchange Activate community broadband solution as well as wireless and satellite broadband."
Another interesting point to make, besides the fact that people will be able to order before the 150 day barrier (which essentially destroys provisional RFS dates altogether), is that they will now be able to receive broadband ADSL on the day the exchange is activated. Until now, you often had to wait up to a couple of weeks after the RFS date itself.
And here's the clincher... "As of April 27th 2004, the registration scheme is closed. Exchanges that have not triggered or are not within 10% of their trigger target will have an RFS date set and announced at the end of June." The availability checker on bt.com/broadband has already been updated to inform people of the removal of the preregistration scheme. |
| By Anonymous on Tuesday, 27 April, 2004 - 11:11 pm: | http://www.btplc.com/News/Pressreleasesandarticles/Corporatenewsreleases/2004/nr0421.htm
BT presses broadband accelerator
UK to have near universal broadband coverage by summer 2005
BT today announced plans to speed up the delivery of broadband services to rural communities. These plans will make the UK a world leader for broadband availability.
BT is to systematically rollout ADSL broadband to a further 1,128 exchanges by no later than summer 2005. This will help bring broadband to exchanges serving 99.6 per cent of UK homes and businesses.
The new approach replaces the broadband registration trigger scheme that has helped BT match investment to demand since July 2002.
Alison Ritchie, BT chief broadband officer, said: "BT has continued to innovate in order to drive broadband as an enabler for tomorrow's society and to deliver a truly Broadband Britain.
"The broadband registration scheme has been a powerful tool for us to match investment to demand and its fantastic success, with the support of local campaigners, has set the way for other countries to follow.
"Now, as we move into more and more rural areas and we have a clearer picture of growing demand, there are real benefits to be gained through a planned roll out. This means we can deliver broadband to far more people in a shorter timeframe.
"This approach also means we can use the best engineering solution for the whole network to efficiently manage costs and future growth.
"Together with our plans to extend the reach of broadband from a local exchange, this takes us significantly closer to universal availability."
The rollout programme will be announced in detail by the end of June and will help BT bring forward some published broadband switch-on dates.
Alison Ritchie added: "The impact that local campaigners have had has been phenomenal - their efforts have meant take-up rates on trigger exchanges have exceeded those for exchanges that were enabled before the registration scheme. These local heroes have helped change the market and this in turn has contributed to our decision to take this approach."
BT Wholesale is working with service providers so people will be able to place their orders as soon as the go live date for their exchange is fixed. The certainty brought by this approach will also help service providers with their longer term business planning and marketing activities.
Today's announcement will deliver broadband to every exchange in the UK except for the very smallest which between them account for less than 100,000 premises. BT will continue to seek to work in partnership with public sector and other organisations to find suitable ways of delivering broadband to these exchanges. BT has developed or is developing several products that are suitable including wireless and satellite broadband as well as the Exchange Activate community broadband solution.
Notes to editors -
The innovative demand registration scheme launched in July 2002 has been a major driver in BT's rollout of broadband services with more than 880,000 individual registrations leading to the upgrade of more than 2,000 exchanges. The scheme will have taken broadband availability from 66 per cent in July 2002 to more than 90 per cent when all the triggered exchanges previously in the upgrade programme are completed.
The broadband registration scheme will cease with immediate effect - those exchanges that have already triggered will have dates set as soon as possible. BT will also set dates for all exchanges within ten per cent of their triggers so that these can also go into immediate build. BT plans to announce the phasing of the rollout for the remaining trigger exchanges by the end of June 2004.
BT hopes to build on its relationship with local broadband campaigners to tap the energy and commitment they have shown on availability issues and encourage them to act as champions to help their communities get the most out of the technology. |
| By Anonymous on Wednesday, 28 April, 2004 - 10:58 am: | | So, in the light of BT's announcement as above, where does this leave Project Access? Is it still needed, if so, is it only required on a scaled down basis to address the handful of exchanges in Cumbria that BT aren't proposing to address via conventional ADSL technology? Will the CIBI members be re-assessing its strategy as a top priority now? Isn't the real issue for the CIBI board to consider urgently that of public funding - could public money be better spent now that a private company (BT) have adopted (and exceeded) CIBI's main purpose of ensuring 90% plus broadband coverage in the sub-region? |
| By Anonymous on Wednesday, 28 April, 2004 - 11:04 am: | BT are only going to upgrade exchanges with trigger levels. 14 exchanges in Cumbria don't have trigger levels, I would say Project Access can still do something about them.
Borrowdale
Holmrook
Armathwaite
Selside
Barbon
Lowick Bridge
Eskdale
Nicholforest
Grayrigg
Ravensworth
Bampton (penrith)
Wasdale
Buttermere
Satterthwaite |
| By Anonymous on Wednesday, 28 April, 2004 - 11:25 am: | So that's 14 exchanges out of a total of 70 or so in Cumbria? To put this into context, it would be interesting to know the demographics of these 14 exchanges, for example the number of individuals covered by these 14 exchanges who have registered for Broadband with CIBI.
Whilst I would fully support 100% universal broadband availability, and therefore some provider needs to deliver broadband to these 14 exchanges, let's examine the remit of Project Access and CIBI in the context of the current BT initiatives. After all, according to this web site, CIBI was based upon an assessment that was completed back in 2000 - the broadband world has moved on since then. All I'm suggesting is that the CIBI management re-assess their project's purpose and strategy against today's broadband landscape before committing huge sums of public money. |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Wednesday, 28 April, 2004 - 01:28 pm: | Anonymous, BT’s announcement is good news for the many people and businesses in Cumbria with entry level broadband requirements.
What BT seems to be proposing will deliver at least 512kb and up to 2000kb to those within a 6km reach of the exchange. Their reference to 99.6% coverage seems to be based upon extended reach utilising ADSL reach technology which could offer 512kb up to 10km from the exchange, this is currently being trialled and if proved successful should be available later this year.
CIBI will of course look at all of the implications of the BT announcement.
As far as Project ACCESS is concerned BT’s actions will bring down the cost of the citizen and business connectivity proportion of the project – less public money spent.
However we do need to bear in mind that there are, as has been pointed out already, fourteen exchanges which BT will not be enabling and if the extended reach trials are successful the maximum 512kb solution may not be a suitable for the needs of many of our rural based businesses.
Finally, Project ACCESS was never purely about delivering broadband connectivity to businesses and citizens, it has also always been about delivering an e-government network in addition to providing a regeneration aspect in terms of encouraging broadband take up and demonstrating the benefits and opportunities which broadband can bring to individuals and businesses. The BT announcement does not affect these strands. |
| By Amused from rural Cumbria on Wednesday, 28 April, 2004 - 02:25 pm: | | Somebody has got a rather large bee in his or her bonnet about how public money is spent!! Which one is it or am I totally off the mark? |
| By Anonymous on Wednesday, 28 April, 2004 - 02:33 pm: | Jennifer,
Thank you for your prompt reply.
I agree wholeheartedly that BT's announcement is good news for many individuals and small businesses in Cumbria. I note that CIBI will be examining the implications of the BT announcement - and I am assuming that the current procurement exercise will also be reviewed in the light of BT's announcement? Now that BT as a private commercial company have decided to invest and provide a broadband the service to 99+% of the UK, the argument for substantial state aid monies to be applied to Project Access will be undermined if the public funds are only to benefit the area covered by the 14 exchange areas mentioned above.
We may also see some competition emerging as a result of BT's announcement, as I would expect other providers - and in particular Your Communications - to react to BTs announcement.
As to your point that some rural businesses may need more broadband bandwidth than ADSL offers, well, if so, then they ought really to be justifying the extra cost as a normal business overhead, just as any other business would do whether rural or urban. If a business needed more than one telephone line, it would have to pay for it. Or is there some other argument to subsidise the cost of doing business in certain rural locations?
Your final point about e-government intrigues me. I was not aware that Project Access was funding the delivery of an "e-government network". What is this all about? And how does this relate to the publicly funded networks that are already in place in the county, including CLEO, Net North West, JANET, etc? |
| By Anonymous on Wednesday, 28 April, 2004 - 05:17 pm: | To amused from rural Cumbria - remember that this project Access has a budget of about £25 MILLION! This is a huge amount of money - our money.
We should all have bees in bonnets if this amount of taxpayers' money isn't needed anymore because BT have decided to do it off their own bat!
CIBI and NWDA need to review this project as a priority and let the public know what they now propose to do. |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Thursday, 29 April, 2004 - 03:00 pm: | Anonymous, I am surprised that you were not aware of the e-government element of Project ACCESS.
Project ACCESS was designed to aggregate public sector demand in Cumbria, in line with Government requirements, and provide those public bodies with the advantages that such aggregation can bring as well as forming a basis from which business and the wider community could be benefit. As far as the other networks you cite are concerned they are, generally speaking, educational networks. Project ACCESS was put out under European Tendering procedures and any provider could have bid for the contract if they thought they had the expertise, the necessary licences and the capacity to supply.
As to “competition emerging as a result of BT's announcement” we will have to wait and see whether alternative providers believe that the market potential in Cumbria is worthwhile for them.
I think that you may have missed the point in my previous posting about the business need for higher broadband speeds. As I am sure you are aware, currently anyone with a telephone line length between 3.5km and 6km can only access 512kb ADSL broadband. If BT’s trials of extended reach ADSL up to 10km are successful and they offer the extended reach ADSL product then anyone with a telephone line length between 3.5km and 10km will only be able to access 512kb ADSL broadband. So while 99.6% may be able to get ADSL, some will still be limited in the opportunities available to them because they are restricted to entry level (512kb) broadband.
The majority of businesses in Cumbria are small and many are based in rural areas, but they play a big role in contributing to the wealth of the county and adding to overall GVA. While I could accept your point about businesses absorbing the cost of additional telephone lines, the cost, as you are aware, of provision of higher bandwidth connections is much greater than that of one additional telephone line. Most small businesses in the county could not justify the cost of buying high bandwidth, which is why currently few of them have taken up anything beyond ISDN and some are even crippled by the cost of that. Broadband is a product which brings with it the chance for everyone, businesses and individuals, to have access to something which can give them the opportunity of adding value to their lives and of competing for new business and new markets with the speed of access which they need and at an affordable cost. |
| By Anonymous on Thursday, 29 April, 2004 - 05:20 pm: | Jennifer,
I'm struggling with your statement above regarding the role of Project Access in aggregating public sector broadband requirements.
Stephen Timms, UK E-commerce Minister, announced last month that framework agreements had already been concluded with 17 telcos to deliver public sector broadband across the UK. Also, the Regional Broadband Aggregation Bodies have already been established specifically to aggregate public sector broadband (Adit North west will cover Cumbria?).
Please see press release /link{http://www.broadband.gov.uk/html/BAP/Aggregation%20Framework%20Agreements.pdf}
Can you please explain how Project Access ties-in with what the Minister announced last month? |
| By Bill Williamson on Thursday, 29 April, 2004 - 11:55 pm: | Jennifer,
I understand that 14 exchanges have not been given trigger levels yet. But 25 MMMMIIIILLLIIIOOONNN PPOOUUNNDSDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are you now suggesting that we spend 25 Million pounds on activating those exchanges.....Have you gone completely barking mad.... i know i have... Banking on this project to kick in.
What WE all want to see is, that 25 million pounds being spent to SPEED!!!! up the broadband activation process. Bugger BT. I want to pay CIBI for my broadband access and not a single nickel, hapenny, dime, cent or zloty to go to BT. I hate and dispise BT, and I cant wish them enough ill will in the world. They've given us the finger all this time and you're suggesting that BT's recent statement is a good thing. How can that possibly be, as every bloody exchange in Gods great county of Cumbria will be activated next year not this year. If any West Cumbrian exchange is activated, thats currently not met its trigger level in the next 5 months (another 200 days) I'll eat my hat and any body elses should they provide it.
In the words of Charlie Brown... "GOOOD GRIEFFF!!!"
On the subject of that 25 MILLION POUNDS, Where is it... I hope its in the bank, cos with the Interest you could activate the isle of man as well. I know you have said previously to other responders, there will be slippage with any project... Yep, true, The war in Iraq missed its planned start date by 5 days... The lunar landings, a couple of weeks. But CIBI are breaking records here....
So, Jennifer, please, for the benefit of us readers and devotees to the cause.
"Give us your BEST guess of when the project will start" You owe us that much! Forget all the contractual nonsense... I'm just asking for your best guess.
2 days, 2 weeks, 2 months. (Other numbers are unthinkable)
Finally, me being the cynic, were you holding onto the money till after the BT announcement...
Heres to another 2 years with my faithful modem...
Bill |
| By Richard Walters, CIBI on Friday, 30 April, 2004 - 06:14 pm: | Dear All,
1) The NWDA will not spend a penny more than is necessary to bring comprehensive telecommunications to Cumbria. So, if it proves possible from the BT announcement, to reduce the cost of Project ACCESS, then every opportunity will be taken to do so.
2) I won't confirm the cost of Project Access, but you're right it is a lot of money, but it will bring a 512kb/2Mb service to 90% of Cumbria with guarantees, so customers will not be left in a broadband hole because their cable is too long, their signal attenuation too strong or they are on aluminium lines. This is a great deal more than the BT ADSL offering which carries no effective service guarantees. If you want more speed you'll be able to get it, but, due to state aid rules, we cannot dictate the price that you'll pay.
3) It is absolutely right and proper that we aggregated the telecoms demand in the public sector, in line with central government directives, to lever a better telecoms deal all round. So Project ACCESS does have a large public sector element within it, which will also reduce their telecoms spend to the benefit of us all. There are links between the Regional Aggregation Board, charged with delivering public sector aggregation, and Project Access meaning that the two will work very closely.
4) I despair at Mr/Mrs/Ms Anonymous rejection of the needs of our rural businesses requirements. Today comprehensive telecoms is an essential tool. Without Project Access our SMEs could have annual costs in access of £10k for a decent service, which for a business turning over £50k, is ludicrous. Project Access will permit them to compete on a level field as their costs will now be in line with their competitors.
Now let's see if we can change direction on to more pressing issues. Project ACCESS will, in due course, deliver a comprehensive service to 90-95% of citizens and businesses in Cumbria, the question is how we can address the needs of those remaining. |
| By Ian, from Lamplugh on Sunday, 02 May, 2004 - 10:02 am: | Hi I'm a newcommer to this board and am one of the many residents of West Cumbria waiting for broadband. I work from home a great deal and would be very keen on any improvement in speed as I frequently have to e-mail large documents (5-10MB)for work.
Jennifer Holliday's post on 29/04 at 3.00 has confused me a bit. In it she says:
"I think that you may have missed the point in my previous posting about the business need for higher broadband speeds. As I am sure you are aware, currently anyone with a telephone line length between 3.5km and 6km can only access 512kb ADSL broadband. If BT’s trials of extended reach ADSL up to 10km are successful and they offer the extended reach ADSL product then anyone with a telephone line length between 3.5km and 10km will only be able to access 512kb ADSL broadband. So while 99.6% may be able to get ADSL, some will still be limited in the opportunities available to them because they are restricted to entry level (512kb) broadband."
Does this mean anyone with a 3.5 - 6km line length AND a broadband-enabled exchange or does it really mean "anyone"? In other words, I'm in Lamplugh, can I have broadband (or at least something faster than 56k) NOW?
Thanks! |
| By Bill Williamson on Sunday, 02 May, 2004 - 06:49 pm: | "Now let's see if we can change direction on to more pressing issues..." (in the words of Tony Blair - King of Teflon Shoulders)
Yep, WE couldn't agree more.... So, when are you going to finish the contract stuff. This is getting farcical. I might turn it into a play..
I suggest that if you ever plan a project like this again, look to getting Japanese firms in. At least when they are late they have the decency to commit Hari-kari.
Finally, Richard, jen, CIBI, anyone...I asked for your best guess. Your last message was lacking.
Like my school report, "Billy must try harder"
So give us your best guess. 2006 0r 7.... |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Tuesday, 04 May, 2004 - 11:45 am: | Ian from Lamplugh,the 'conversation' was about enabled exchanges so what was meant was anyone connected to a broadband-enabled exchange and with a line length up to 6km could get ADSL broadband.
Thanks to a helpful Anonymous for supplying additional useful information. |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Tuesday, 04 May, 2004 - 11:49 am: | | Bill, I would not want to start playing guessing games and create expectations. The implications on Project ACCESS of the BT announcement are being assessed and as soon as we are in a position to make an announcement we will do so. |
| By Anonymous on Thursday, 06 May, 2004 - 03:54 pm: | The original message posted here has been edited.
The crux of the message was to question the effectiveness of the work done to date on delivering Project ACCESS, however it delivered personal attacks on specific named people within CIBI and it is for this reason that the decision was taken to moderate it. |
| By Cumbrian taxpayer on Thursday, 06 May, 2004 - 04:53 pm: | | Anonymous - your suggestion is slightly unfair on the individuals you name. Remember the North West Development Agency are the ones pulling the strings on Project Access and the individuals you name probably have little influence. The NWDA decided to promote Project Access as the "biggest and best" project with a £25 million price ticket, and its sheer scale has contributed to the apparent endless lack of delivery. I think that your anger should be directed at (a) the NWDA officials who have taken these decisions and (b) the nameless and self-appointed "members" of the CIBI management board who have overseen this fandango - whoever they are. |
| By Tony Bunce......Still in the dialup wilderness on Thursday, 06 May, 2004 - 08:38 pm: | Dear Jennifer,
I haven't checked up on progress in a while, as have been down South five weeks. Unfortunately, on my return Cilla Black didn't greet me with a "Surprise, Suprise, You've got broadband....."
So five weeks and we've had absolutely nothing, zilch...zip....nowt....not a sniff....Still signing those bloody contracts.
In the words of Bagpuss......yawnnnnnnnn!!!
I think we've past the point of no return. The CIBI house of cards has fallen apart.
So, may I suggest that we setup a public meeting, where the likes of myself, "Wild" Bill, and all the other anons can attend. We need some answers from the bods at the top, the organ grinders, the ones with their hands on the cash. (25 million)
Thats whole lotta cash they've got their hands on, and if i look at my wage packet, 7K of it could be mine.
I'm planning to hire a conference facility, (which the NWDA will be paying for) so you can tell us all about the project. Jack Cunningham will be invited and HE WILL attend. I might even dust off his letter I received from him many moons ago....
I hope you agree to this. I'm sure everyone else would agree that it's a very good idea. Give us the nod and i'll start the ball rolling.
Kind regards,
Tony. |
| By Barry Smith from the Dialup wilderness on Thursday, 06 May, 2004 - 08:50 pm: | Tony,
Good Idea, i'll be there
Dialup wilderness.... never thought that would catch on. I'll have to start a website.
Dialupwilderness.com :-)
Barry Smith also from the dialup wilderness |
| By Another dial-up resident of Cumbria on Friday, 07 May, 2004 - 11:17 am: | I note that there has been a May update within the "Progress" section elsewhere on this web site.
The jist of this update is that CIBI are "considering the implications" of BT's announcement that they are enabling the majority of their exchanges and that they have scrapped the trigger-level scheme. It seems that BT's announcement came as a suprise to CIBI. So, CIBI have spent the best part of 3 years coming up with a strategic plan that's now in very serious doubt. Also, it seems that CIBI have failed within that period to establish a rapport with BT, so that CIBI were blissfully unaware of BT's plans. Consequently, CIBI now have a perfect excuse for further delay in delivery of what has been promised. I predict that nothing will now happen and Project Access will go back to the drawing board and subsequently die. Hang on to your dial up modems folks!
The update also mentions that CIBI considers that it is responsible for two other things:
1. Aggregating public sector demand, in line with Government policy, and delivering an e-government network across Cumbria.
A posting from Anonymous above asked a very good question - if Government have already set up a Regional Body to do this, why is CIBI still involved?
2. A regeneration aspect in terms of encouraging broadband take up and demonstrating the benefits and opportunities which broadband can bring to individuals and businesses.
Government has for several years supported a broad range of projects to do this and many other organisations are already on the "awareness raising" bandwagon, including UK Online, Business Link, Alliance for Skills and Productivity, Chambers of Commerce, NW Node, Libraries, CREDITS, Colleges, Business Centres - the list goes on and on. So what's the justification for CIBI to add themselves to this list? |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Friday, 07 May, 2004 - 02:54 pm: | While developing Project ACCESS CIBI has also undertaken a range of other activities to drive forward the provision of broadband in Cumbria.
CIBI’s drive to raise awareness of the benefits of broadband has had a huge effect on the rate of exchange enablement, the number of trigger levels reached and the level of pre-registrations in the county.
CIBI has played an active part in a number of local campaigns to get exchanges enabled for broadband and given support and advice to others.
CIBI spearheaded the drive to secure North West Broadband Fund money for broadband pilot projects in Cumbria making a very positive impact on generating awareness of, and providing greater access to, broadband in the county.
This action resulted in funding of £933,216.63 (43% of the total investment in the 22 projects across the North West) being allocated to effect the implementation of 10 diverse projects in disparate locations in Cumbria, providing connections for 400 new broadband subscribers.
Not only did Cumbria benefit in gaining 43% of the investment we also have over 45% of these important North West demonstrator projects here. Of the total 71 applications for funding 24 were from Cumbria (34% of the total) and the conversion rate, from application to live project, for Cumbria was higher than all but one of the other sub-regions and that sub-region had only 7 applications.
Awareness of the benefits of broadband has been raised by CIBI during the last two years:
1. Around 58,000 leaflets have been distributed countywide
2. Over 160,000 copies of a Guide to Broadband supplement were distributed across the county
3. In excess of 70 awareness raising events have been attended by CIBI staff
4. Partnerships have been developed with more than 140 organisations who have distributed broadband information on behalf of CIBI reaching around 51,000 people
5.Over 70 presentations have been made to a variety of groups and organisations
6. More than 1000 organisations, businesses and individuals have been personally given broadband information or advice by CIBI staff
7.The CIBI website was established at a time when information on broadband was scarce, it has had thousands of hits
8. Around 4000 businesses and households, mainly from rural areas of the county, have registered their interest in broadband with CIBI
9. Over 550 people took part in broadband surveys carried out around the county by CIBI
CIBI has not failed, it may not yet have met everyone's expectations but it has had many successes and continues to play an important leading role in broadband roll out, take up and utilisation. |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Friday, 07 May, 2004 - 03:00 pm: | Another dial-up resident of Cumbria, despite your opinion to the contrary, CIBI has established a rapport with many of the major broadband providers, including BT. However when one of them makes a major decision at national level in terms of its business plan and operation they do not beat a path to the door of sub-regional organisations such as CIBI. In the case of the BT decision to enable all exchanges with a trigger level, BT was taking a global view and their action was driven by the influences of the Department for Trade and Industry and the Government. Very few people within BT were even aware of the announcement and its extent until the press release went out on the morning of 27 April.
I have already stated elsewhere on this forum that there is still much for CIBI to undertake where commercial organisations are not venturing, therefore the role for Project ACCESS is still there.
As Richard stated in this posting of 30 April “There are links between the Regional Aggregation Board, charged with delivering public sector aggregation, and Project Access meaning that the two will work very closely.” Well before the Government put the Regional Aggregation Boards in place Project ACCESS had already done the work of aggregating public sector demand in Cumbria through the CIBI partners.
CIBI was putting on public broadband awareness raising events and providing information long before any other public or private sector organisation acknowledged the need to provide people with an understanding of the benefits of broadband in order to drive demand.
In terms of the regeneration aspect of Project ACCESS you cite a number of organisations who are raising broadband awareness, should you care to look at the CIBI partners page of this website you will see that some of those you name are CIBI partners. The vital awareness raising they do is part of a wide range of other services they offer and they call upon the in depth knowledge of CIBI to provide them with the information they need.
As to the other organisations, the regional champion for the now defunct UK Online for Business sits on the CIBI steering group; the Libraries are working with CIBI to raise awareness; CIBI is working in partnership with CREDITS and provided presenters for their recent series of broadband seminars.
CIBI is not merely adding itself to a list it is leading the way! |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Friday, 07 May, 2004 - 03:35 pm: | | This topic was made available to enable people to talk about why they have not yet taken up broadband if it is available in their area. It is increasingly becoming a place for people to question CIBI, so I have opened up a new topic for those who wish to ask CIBI questions about we are doing. By using that area it will enable those who genuinely wish to discuss Broadband Take up to do so without having to wade through non-topic postings. |
| By Tony Bunce......found hanging from a tree in the broadband wilderness on Friday, 07 May, 2004 - 03:44 pm: | Jennifer,
1.So I take it the meeting was a bad idea.
2. In the words of a five year old child... I dont get it.....you've done that great list of things and we're still no bloody nearer to broadband. And when was the meeting for the residents of Gosforth, seascale and holmrook.
Must of been away that year.
3.You've raised the awareness and more importantly the "expectation" but when am I at my house in Gosforth going to get broadband....
4. You were looking at a range of technologies, you were getting the money, you were finding contractors to do it (who are queueing up by the way), you were signing the contracts.....
Is all this out the window now.
Cut to the chase!!!! Lead the way down my way...!!!
Tony |
| By Very Mad Bill Williamson on Friday, 07 May, 2004 - 05:21 pm: | A new discussion board on take up...you're taking the P...
We ALL WANT TO TAKE UP, but we can't bloody get.
Thats what I thought project access was all about.... Giving us the goods. |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Friday, 07 May, 2004 - 05:31 pm: | | Bill, you seem to have misunderstood my last posting. I have requested that those who wish to ask questions about CIBI and its work do so on the new topic and leave those who wish to discuss take up to do so on this one. |
| By Paul @ Sheffield, Former Penrith Resident. on Monday, 10 May, 2004 - 03:44 am: | Hello all,
Dare I ask anyone to cut Jennifer some slack?
She has the hardest job here, listening to what users want, keeping the steering board happy, dealing with NWDA and prospective broadband suppliers to the region albeit fixed line or wireless or otherwise.
Bill Williamson mouthing off like a spoilt child does to make progress or resolve any issues any quicker so for the benefit of others if you have nothing constructive to say, say nothing at all!
I have been involved with broadband in one flavor or another for the last 6 years... I have seen it hit breaking point to where users want it but can not access it. BT has finally realized this after a near 2 year pre-reg scheme that has helped areas of the region prove there own demand such as Ulverston and Penrith to name but a few.
With BT's recent-ish announcement to enable all but the 14 unviable in the region by Summer 2005 as more of a chance for CIBI to direct the required resource at the 14 areas that are left in the slow lane.
To all those in this forum that think cibi is a shambles, I agree to some extent but only on the level that is lacking public information, but once again if projects are tendered for only so much information can be public.
If anyone wishes to flame me or insult me in anyway due to this post then please do so to my own personal email address paul@ph0x.co.uk as this forum has enough of petty little whiners.
Thank you for reading through this and everyone will get broadband soon just how is the question...
Regards
Paul B |
| By CIBI Steering Group Chairman on Monday, 10 May, 2004 - 10:05 am: | I have been browsing the CIBI forum recently and was somewhat surprised about the comments raised with regard to Jennifer Holliday and Richard Walters. Comments such as these of a negative personal nature are not welcome on the site as they do not take the cause of furthering access to affordable broadband in Cumbria forward one little bit. They rather demoralise individuals who are working extremely hard to achieve that goal, and whom I might add have the full support of myself and the CIBI Steering Group.
The delay in the announcement of Project ACCESS is not of their making and an announcement will be made shortly as to the status of the project.
Currently the project has a preferred bidder and this substantial investment project proposal is undergoing its final evaluation at HM Treasury. Once approval is achieved and a final contract put into place I will publish this on the CIBI Forum. |
| By Dave P - national über-broadband-campaigner on Monday, 10 May, 2004 - 10:21 am: | I'm not sure where this £25m waste of money comes from:
- You have 14 non-viable exchanges
- To pay BT, each exchange costs £25,000 for the first 30 users and then £10,000 for each 30 after that.
- According to Samknows you have 4 exchanges in those 14 at over 30 people and none over 60.
- Assuming everyone signs up immediately, that means £390,000 is required, if my maths is correct.
So, BT are doing the viable ones anyway and £390k buys the unviable ones Exchange Activate. Not £25m, so what are you waiting for? Is there some anti-BT political dogma in operation?
Dave |
| By Anonymous on Monday, 10 May, 2004 - 10:22 am: | Mr/Mrs/Ms CIBI Chairman - quite right, personal jibes aimed at employees of CIBI are unfair and will not contribute to moving your project further on. On the other hand, there are clearly a lot of frustrated people out there who need to have their expectations correctly set. Therefore it is vital for you and your board to communicate with this community of interest and provide as much information as you can about realistic deployment timescales.
BTW, if you don't want to identify yourself by name, that's fine, but what organisation do you represent within the CIBI board? |
| By Dave P - national über-broadband-campaigner on Monday, 10 May, 2004 - 10:49 am: | Just to follow up my message, I noticed that CIBI proudly declare:
"This action resulted in funding of £933,216.63 (43% of the total investment in the 22 projects across the North West) being allocated to effect the implementation of 10 diverse projects in disparate locations in Cumbria, providing connections for 400 new broadband subscribers."
If £390,000 was spent with BT on the 14 unviable exchanges, 317 people would benefit. That is less than half as much money on nearly as many people. The ~£1m mentioned above buys a lot of well-backed, professionally-run ADSL solutions.
I have to ask why RDAs have been so keen to spend money on any solution but BT's, with many wireless operators failing miserably to deliver a decent service or any at all as far as I can see. |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Monday, 10 May, 2004 - 11:02 am: | | Dave P, Through the UK Broadband Fund the Government distributed at total of £30 million between the Regional Development Agencies and Devolved Administrations to stimulate broadband pilot projects. The North West Broadband Fund to which my earlier posting referred was NWDA’s share of that money. As the money was allocated by the Government there were guidelines about how it should be spent and NWDA spent that money within those guidelines. |
| By Anonymous on Tuesday, 11 May, 2004 - 12:27 pm: | | BT was always going to be the way forward regarding ADSL broadband its just a pity that CIBI was so anti them from the beginning we could all have benefitted much earlier. |
| By digitaldales on Monday, 17 May, 2004 - 10:44 pm: | Sorry this is long, but needs saying.........
Amazing how well-spent BT's £35million was on their advertising campaign to (mis)inform the British public about what broadband is. Yes, 10 whole million less than Project ACCESS on a few TV ads - how many exchanges could have been enabled for that ad spend?????
In 1984, broadband was greater than 2Mbps. In 2004, it seems to have slipped to people being happy with 1/2Mbps. Very British attitude - "Oh well, at least it'll be better than dial up". Ho hum.
BT admitted recently that ADSL is "an interim technology", (ie it'll be obsolete very soon) and Stephen Timms is talking about multimegabit and gigabit connections to all. Even FTTH (Fibre To The Home) is being mentioned again in a constructive way. The Americans call us the 'cave people' because we are still thinking in kbps, and we need to stop that.
BT's idea of a 21st Century network is 50Mbps SDSL/VDSL somewhere in the future - let's say by 2010 for sake of argument. Ask yourself how competitive that will make UK Plc when next year Korea intend to dish out 100Mbps VDSL connections to some ludicrous number of people (8.5million, I think). Estonia, Sweden, Canada, Italy etc all have affordable, mass market true broadband products _now_.
BT are trying to wring the last few pennies out of an obsolete copper network with ADSL, and it seems most people have fallen for this ploy. They are, after all, a commercial company with shareholders to satisfy so it’s fairly standard behaviour. However, ADSL is 'not' broadband. It won't allow you to even begin to use broadband applications which are the present and the future, nor is it permitting our innovators to get on and invent all the really exciting applications which broadband will make feasible.
ADSL is not future-proof broadband. That's OK though because we all know that, don't we? This is just the first of many steps to get Britain broadband-enabled so if BT don't come to our exchange, it's fine, because actually the product they are currently offering through the resellers isn't the one we need to buy, is it? After all, since May 1st, most EU grants for UK have started to go to other countries more deserving than us. If we were to spend the money we have in the Treasury on a short-term technology, then where would the money come from to put in the real thing?
There's a reason why more bandwidth is better and if anyone has tried video conferencing, VoIP, video on demand, TV over IP or any of the other broadband services on ADSL, they will know it doesn't cut the mustard.
I've got a 2Mbps down 1/2Mbps up connection over satellite, and I don't ever want to hear a modem again. But it's still too slow compared to much fatter pipes some people in other countries take for the norm - Sweden 10Mbps symmetrical for £19/month, FastWeb in Italy with TV, Video on demand, Net access, VoIP etc in one package for under 25euros a month etc.
If Project ACCESS does what it ought, which is surely to leapfrog rather than imitate the pathetic offerings available now, then it has the potential to be a huge success. CIBI are presumably moving the goalposts, as are many others in Government and industry to keep up with the demands of the consumers, and the state of the market. And not just lying down as many of the RDA’s are, and saying “Good for BT. Job done.” It isn’t.
The problem I saw with ACCESS was that NWDA were not allowed to specify a giant fibre figure of eight around the whole of Cumbria in the OJEC tender, which would have been future-proofed and could have been fi-wi (fibre-wireless) to reach all those places to which fibre-laying would have been prohibitively expensive. Fibre is, after all, the ultimate goal.
Whilst we await the delivery of Project ACCESS, all those who think that BT's announcements about the abandonment of the trigger levels and the reduction in LLU pricing are good news, need to look at the wider picture. All that is doing is opening up a competitive market place within BT Wholesale's first mile product range, and scaring the pants off the many innovative companies out there who want to invest but daren’t whilst they see the country being led up a path satisfying only to some shareholders.
If I want to put an SDSL DSLAM into the nearest exchange, I still can't afford the middle mile costs - the part of the network over which BT has an almost total stranglehold. That is what I would like to see from ACCESS - a truly aggregated middle mile alternative network - which communities, public sector, ISP’s, SME's etc can access at an affordable price, and which will allow localised content and services to be delivered, especially following the hugely successful http://www.3-c.coop model. It will also encourage competition in the middle mile from other carriers eg YourCommunications, NTL, Neos etc and maybe even bring Global Crossing back into the picture.
If I, as an IT business, choose to buy a 10Mbps feed, whether for a community network or myself personally, then as demand on that pipe rises (and I promise it will!), and I need to purchase more bandwidth, the costs of that bandwidth should reduce - economies of scale. All those using the middle mile should be able to share the network resources and bandwidth and bulk buy TOGETHER to reduce costs. This is what the RAB's are about - recently renamed adits - but they only seem to address public sector procurement. There seems to be no consideration within the RAB's about the importance of SME's, communities or domestic users, and their access to this aggregated product. One hopes there will be within ACCESS, or the RAB’s and ACCESS will be duplicating and competing needlessly.
Community networks (some funded by NWDA) are working very hard to put in a minimum of 2Mbps to end users, and Alston has around 7Mbps in total, (I think), EdenFaster has 6Mbps. Over that sort of network, and with the additional benefits of 11Mbps + wi-fi and Wi-max in the future, content and services can be provided which NO OTHER TELCO can offer at this time. BT probably never will want to involve itself in community content, host servers with locally-made videos of school plays etc, run PBX's so VoIP within the community can be completely free, etc etc. And why should it to be honest? You can't pay a shareholder divvy on social benefits, even if they are far more important to UK Plc.
The metrics frequently stated about how many people can now get ADSL broadband are complete phooey. The real metric of importance is not what percentage of the population can get ADSL or cable broadband, but how much data is being transferred and at what cost. The Broadband Britain goal should be to make the UK the cheapest place to move data in the world. That is a best network - most data moved at least cost. If everyone has an ADSL connection, contended at 50:1, then even on a good day the amount of data they can move is severely limited. My kids have been known to move 3Gb in the time between the end of school and supper, sharing games, photos and music with mates around the world! Once we see massive data transfers along these lines then we will start to reap the benefits, and then we’ll see the competitive marketplace the Government keep stating is their aim.
Giving CIBI stick because their stated aims back in 2000 (and yes, they were well ahead of the game back then) are not necessarily relevant today, especially as a large corporate Behemoth Telecom plays the citizens and ministers of this country for mugs, is hardly justifiable.
If you want true broadband today, I suggest you get off your backsides, stop giving Jennifer grief, or waiting for CIBI or ACCESS or RFS dates to be met, read documents such as "10 and you're there" which is the model for community networks now running across the country, and JFDI. (Look it up on Google if you don't know that particular acronym!)
The Community Broadband Network http://www.broadband-uk.coop is there to help you out for free with mentor days, expertise, advice, and a ton of people who have been there, done that and got the t-shirt, and who will stop you reinventing the wheel.
I have campaigned for almost 10 years for broadband and find it a sad indictment on this country that so many people seem to believe adverts on TV and corporate hype. Even my kids know to ask, "Were they paid to say that?".
Lindsey Annison
Access to Broadband Campaign
http://www.ABCampaign.org.uk
Digital Dales
http://www.digitaldales.co.uk/talk |
| By digitaldales on Monday, 17 May, 2004 - 11:03 pm: | Sorry, lost a word there in the typing, should have read:
"Yes, 10 whole million less than Project ACCESS has on a few TV ads - how many exchanges could have been enabled for that ad spend?????"
Dave P might know the answer to that question, although the number of Exchange Activated exchanges is less than 10 as far as I know (I personally only know of 1, in Wales) as even BT went off the idea almost immediately after launch.
And one question which seems to be frequently ignored is "What percentage of people within 6km of an enabled exchange can't get ADSL today?" There are technical restrictions on ADSL delivery and the percentages of lines in an exchange which can't carry ADSL are being kept very quiet (except on forums etc). In rural areas, one of the big problems is aluminium not copper, and degraded copper. Dave's calculations ignore who is going to provide a service to those who cannot be reached.
There are also many people who feel that the RDA's are generally just giving contracts to BT (One North East, SWRDA, Yorkshire Forward etc) and not even considering other suppliers or technologies, and there are also many wireless operators who are doing just fine at delivering. Take 1st Broadband, Consume, MLL Telecom, PCCW, ORB, all the Scottish projects, Liberty Europe etc etc. And the Broadband capital of Britain, so-called because it has had the highest take-up rate of any area, is wireless, and happens to be Alston Cybermoor.
Lindsey |
| By Anonymous on Wednesday, 19 May, 2004 - 09:03 pm: | Chairman.
Well, you've had 3 "whole long long" weeks to consider the implications of the BT announcement, how many more do you need.....must have been a CIBI fairy that told me the project would roll out in spring, and they were on target.
Just hurry up and admit the projects an expensive dead duck/wind-up and you're stalling for time. The longer you are, the shorter BTs activation will be...
For Christs sake hurry up and put us out of our misery.
PS. Did you teach the American iraqi interrogation team its torture techniques. If not they could certainly learn a trick or two off of you. Give em a call.... |
| By Anonymous on Thursday, 20 May, 2004 - 01:50 pm: | | Who is this chairman? Who appointed him/her? |
| By thinkbroadband.com on Thursday, 20 May, 2004 - 04:35 pm: | I believe it's time we get everything into perspective! Of 105 exchanges in Cumbria we will end up with 91 in service after the work is completed under the "Plan & Build" scheme. We already have 18 exchanges in service, 24 exchanges in build, and 49 will be upgraded as part of the new scheme.
The first thing we have to look at is coverage on these 91 exchanges. We currently have a 6km limit for ADSL. However, there's a great chance of success with the extended reach trials in Milton Keynes so the coverage could be greatly improved across the country.
Of course everyone is asking about the remaining 14 exchanges in Cumbria. We have all eagerly awaited news from CIBI concering Project ACCESS but lets be fair about this - a lot of changes will have to be made as a result of the "Plan & Build" scheme. We won't get anywhere by throwing insults around this message board. However, can anyone on the 14 unviable exchanges (Armathwaite, Bampton, Barbon, Borrowdale, Buttermere, Eskdale, Grayrigg, Holmrook, Lowick Bridge, Nicholforest, Ravensworth, Satterthwaite, Selside and Wasdale) please e-mail enquiries@thinkbroadband.com to register your details - we all want to achieve acceptable levels of coverage by whatever means available and we may have a solution!
In the meantime we are campaigning with BT Wholesale to drive demand for ADSL services as part of a take-up campaign. We will announce how the campaign will operate next month following talks with BT - at the same time as the launch of a new broadband service here in Cumbria! All 49 exchanges included in the planned rollout under the "Plan & Build" scheme will have RFS dates announced by the end of June and services can be pre-ordered from July onwards - all as part of the take-up campaign.
I'll bring you more news shortly, but in the meantime lets try and cool things down on here! CIBI are doing more than most of us realise and without their work and the work of our local campaigns there would be a very different picture of broadband availability here in Cumbria. I have personally invested a large amount of time towards improving coverage across the county and I am delighted with the results and feedback which has been very rewarding.
Regards
Richard Culley
thinkbroadband.com - Bringing Broadband to Cumbria & The Lakes |
| By Anonymous on Thursday, 20 May, 2004 - 04:52 pm: | A7. Broadband is currently available in some parts of Cumbria, there is a list on the CIBI website, www.cibi.org.uk . However the vast majority of people in the county cannot yet get access to it unless they sign up for satellite broadband. It is precisely because broadband is not available in a widespread way that the partners in CIBI have got together. CIBI aims to ensure that 90% of people and businesses in Cumbria have access to broadband and are currently on target to begin overseeing that roll out early in 2004 with an objective of completion within 12 months.
Lifted direct from this web site. Now nearly middle of 2004 and no contract appears to have been signed and CIBI cannot possibly be overseeing the roll out.
What is the hold up. Why is it that public money is being spent in achieving very little. It would appear the project has hit a brick wall and needs some fresh ideas or faces at the helm.
can I also suggest the CIBI updates its own web pages to give accurate information. |
| By Anonymous on Thursday, 20 May, 2004 - 04:52 pm: | A7. Broadband is currently available in some parts of Cumbria, there is a list on the CIBI website, www.cibi.org.uk . However the vast majority of people in the county cannot yet get access to it unless they sign up for satellite broadband. It is precisely because broadband is not available in a widespread way that the partners in CIBI have got together. CIBI aims to ensure that 90% of people and businesses in Cumbria have access to broadband and are currently on target to begin overseeing that roll out early in 2004 with an objective of completion within 12 months.
Lifted direct from this web site. Now nearly middle of 2004 and no contract appears to have been signed and CIBI cannot possibly be overseeing the roll out.
What is the hold up. Why is it that public money is being spent in achieving very little. It would appear the project has hit a brick wall and needs some fresh ideas or faces at the helm.
can I also suggest the CIBI updates its own web pages to give accurate information. |
| By Anon on Sunday, 23 May, 2004 - 02:24 pm: | | I've heard from sources at the NWDA and Business Link that CIBI is going to die the death. The scope of the project and tenders is now out of alignment with needs and therefore will have to be re-written - there would seem little point in doing this. If CIBI is to remain and justify itself, then surely the NWDA money would be better spent on ensuring that Cumbria is a front runner on the digital divide and have more business coverage with SDSL rather than bog standard ADSL, which is now going to be done by BT anyway! |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Wednesday, 26 May, 2004 - 11:04 am: | | CIBI wishes to extend an invitation to everyone, named or anonymous, posting on this discussion forum to meet with the CIBI Chairman, Phil Southward, either on a ‘one to one’ or a ‘one to many’ basis to raise issues, put over their viewpoints or ask questions. Email either info@cibi.org.uk or Phil Southward |
| By digitaldales on Thursday, 27 May, 2004 - 01:56 pm: | I'd like to be at that meeting please. Think one to many would be better
a) so everyone who wants broadband could actually meet each other as I think there are all sorts of potential community network solutions here which would benefit from everyone knowing and working together
b) because if Phil has to have lots of meetings with people who seem to be getting more cross by the week, his blood pressure will go through the roof!
c) I think some of the projects who have actually received money from NWDA - Cybermoor, Solway, Alston, EdenFaster for starters - should also be invited so people can see what CAN be done and what has been done. |
| By Tony bunce....using broadband from an internet cafe in the arse end of Poland. on Tuesday, 01 June, 2004 - 09:31 pm: | Such a shame that my early thoughts of the project all came true...
A Dead duck and an expensive con, you had us all going, even the councillors and MP's. Somebody needs to be hauled over the coals for this.
It was allowed to get out of hand and we all swallowed it. Shameful, bloody shameful... |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Wednesday, 02 June, 2004 - 11:38 am: | | CIBI never set out to 'con' anyone and certainly hasn't. Tony Bunce requested a meeting with CIBI and one has been offered, but that offer has yet to be taken up. Talking face to face with CIBI provides the opportunity to voice concerns and get proper answers rather than the disjointed responses of the discussion forum or email. |
| By Anonymous on Wednesday, 02 June, 2004 - 12:54 pm: | | CIBI HAS CONNED US ALL AFTER SETTING OUT WITH GOOD INTENTIONS IT BECAME OBVIOUS TO MANY OF US THAT WHAT CIBI WERE TRYING TO DO WAS NEVER GOING TO WORK. I HAVE ATTENDED MEETINGS WITH CIBI AND HAVE NEVER HAD MY QUESTIONS ANSWERED OR MY CONCERNS ADDRESSED. SO TONY STAY IN THE BACK OF BEYOND IN A SUPPOSED THIRD WORLD COUNTRY ONCE AGAIN CUMBRIA IS LEFT TO THE TWITS WHO BELIEVE THEIR WAY IS RIGHT AND REFUSE TO LISTEN TO OTHERS. I WILL BE CALLING FOR SOMEONE TO BE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE SHOCKING WASTE OF PUBLIC MONEY AND THE SHAMBLES THAT HAS BEEN CIBI |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Wednesday, 02 June, 2004 - 01:11 pm: | | As it says in the latest update, Project ACCESS is with HM Treasury for approval. The project team will meet with them in June and until that approval is gained no progress can be made. |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Wednesday, 02 June, 2004 - 01:14 pm: | | Anonymous, if you believe that your concerns have not been addressed take up the invitation, contact Phil Southward, CIBI chairman, and make your points to him. |
| By Tony Bunce...... on Thursday, 03 June, 2004 - 06:32 pm: | Dear Mr Bunce 7th November 2003
Thank you for your email of 5th OCTOBER, (yep OCTOBER!!!! only took a month to reply)
There are too many people in rural areas like ours who cannot access an affordable and reliable broadbajnd service. In October 2003 I took up this issue with the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, Patricia Hewitt. Patricia informed me that in Order to address this problem a £30 million fund was to be set up with the PURPOSE of finding ways of extending broadband networks to parts of the country where they would otherwise not be commercially viable.
The North west regional development agency received 2.68 million, to establish expertise and dedicated strategies and to develop innovative broadband initiatives across the region. The agency has embarked on a number of initiatives in Cumbria. (None of which are on the cumbrian coast)
Project ACCESS proposes to secure broadband services for over 90% of Cumbria with a GUARANTEE that the service cost will be no more expensive than 'Wired up' areas eg Greater Manchester, London, etc. The project is currently on target to begin rollout in early 2004 reaching 90% of cumbria in 12 months.
I will continue to work with the Northwest development agency and the cumbria ICT Broadband initiative on this issue.
If you have not already done so can I suggest you register with CIBA as they are mapping responses in PREPARATION for ROLLOUT. It would be helpful if you could actively encourage friends, colleagues and neighbours to register.
Yours sincerely,
Right Hon. Dr J Cunningham MP
This is a letter from Jack Cunningham. Note the words that the project ON TARGET TO ROLLOUT in early 2004. Note that it will be completed within 12 months. Note, that theres no mention of a review of the process should BT decide to broaden their horizons (which was inevitable in 2-3 years anyway.)
Now, if somebody told me that what's was going to happen with respect to broadband over the next 12 months and it didnt happen, am I right in thinking that I've been lied to. Yes in a word.
Finally, Yes, I'll will take the invitation to discuss this shambles with Mr Southward, I enjoy a good barny. But at the end of the day, what good will it do. You've already stated that the project is under review, which means in latin, Deadus Duckus.
Kind regards as ever,
Tony Bunce |
| By Philip Southward, Chairman CIBI Steering Group on Thursday, 17 June, 2004 - 12:10 pm: | A senior team of NWDA officials met with representatives from HM Treasury on Monday 14th June 2004 to present the final appraisal document delivered by AMION consulting which explains the case and need for Project ACCESS.
This appraisal document takes into account the recent announcements by BT on exchange enablement by Summer 2005 and the impact that these announcements have had upon the project.
The presentation was well received by the Treasury who confirmed that they now had all the information that they needed to deliver a decision on this project.
HM Treasury cautioned that due to the pressures on departmental resources due to the impact of the Comprehensive Spending Review 2004, that they would make every effort to get the decision back to the NWDA by the end of June 2004.
On a personal note I would like to apologise for the delays that we have encountered on the way to arriving at a final decision from all of the parties to this approvals process, but due to the level of public funding required, the ever changing world of technological advancement in this area, the recent announcements by the National deliverer of telecommunications and the overall complex nature on how the project has had to be put together, each party to the decision making process has had to take time to fully understand what the holistic implications are for this project.
As soon as I am able to inform you of the decision I will ensure that it is posted on the CIBI discussion forum.
I assure you all of my total commitment to this project and even as the final stages of the approvals process draw to a close I am making every effort to lobby for support.
Regards
Philip Southward - Chairman - CIBI Steering Group
Senior Responsible Owner - Project ACCESS |
| By Tony Bunce on Tuesday, 22 June, 2004 - 06:45 pm: | Phil,
Ok, by the end of the week, either you get the go ahead or the finger. Lets say you get the go ahead. What happens next. Will Gosforth get broadband, or have we been secretly and snidely swept out of the project now....whats the plan.!!
tony |
| By thinkbroadband.com on Wednesday, 30 June, 2004 - 09:49 am: | The new "Plan & Build" scheme RFS (Ready For Service) dates have been announced!
Abbeytown (LCABT) 06/10/2004
Allonby (LCALL) 15/12/2004
Ambleside (LCAMB) 03/11/2004
Appleby (LCAPP) 03/11/2004
Arnside (LCASD) 08/12/2004
Aspatria (LCASP) 12/01/2005
Bardsea (LCBAD) 05/01/2005
Bootle (LCBOO) 16/02/2005
Brough (LCBRH) 13/10/2004
Broughton In Furness (LCBRS) 11/05/2005
Burgh By Sands (LCBUG) 12/01/2005
Burton (LCBTN) 03/11/2004
Calthwaite (LCCAL) 03/11/2004
Coniston (LCCON) 11/05/2005
Crooklands (LCCRO) 13/10/2004
Crosby-On-Eden (LCCRB) 16/03/2005
Crosthwaite (LCCHE) 20/10/2004
Culgaith (LCCUL) 17/11/2004
Dalston (LCDLS) 15/12/2004
Glenridding (LCGLE) 18/05/2005
Gosforth (LCGSF) 20/04/2005
Greenodd (LCGRE) 05/01/2005
Hackthorpe (LCHAC) 10/11/2004
Hawkshead (LCHAW) 27/04/2005
Hayton (LCHAY) 26/01/2005
Kirkbride (LCKKB) 05/01/2005
Kirkby In Furness (LCKFS) 05/01/2005
Kirkby Stephen (LCKST) 10/11/2004
Kirklinton (LCKIR) 06/04/2004
Lamplugh (LCLAM) 20/04/2005
Langdale (LCLGD) 10/11/2004
Langwathby (LCLNB) 20/10/2004
Longtown (LCLOG) 05/01/2005
Low Ireby (LCLOI) 04/05/2005
Morland (LCMLD) 05/01/2005
Newbiggin-On-Lune (LCNBL) 02/02/2005
Newby Bridge (LCNBR) 05/01/2005
Orton (LCORT) 03/11/2004
Pooley Bridge (LCPYB) 27/04/2005
Raughton Head (LCRAU) 19/01/2005
Ravenglass (LCRAV) 13/04/2005
Roadhead (LCRDH) 06/07/2005
Sedbergh (LCSED) 03/11/2004
Sedgwick (LCSEG) 03/11/2004
Silloth (LCSIL) 19/01/2005
Skelton (LCSKE) 17/11/2004
Southwaite (LCSOW) 16/03/2005
Staveley (LCSTV) 17/11/2004
Wigton (LCWGT) 16/03/2005
The ADSL campaign site at www.thinkbroadband.com will shortly be updated with details of the BT pre-order scheme for the above areas.
This posting has been edited as it contained commercial advertising content
Regards
Richard Culley
thinkbroadband.com - Bringing Broadband to Cumbria & The Lakes |
| By Anonymous on Wednesday, 30 June, 2004 - 11:19 am: | Tony - looks like you've got your answer from BT - Gosforth 20/4/2005.
Realistically, can CIBI do anything in the meantime other than wait for BT to enable all the exchanges as above? |
| By Tony Bunce on Wednesday, 30 June, 2004 - 01:27 pm: | A bad bad day......
In was expecting something from CIBI before that, ie. Now...
NOw we have to wait another 10 months, absolutely disgusting, a real bad show all round especially from CIBI. You at the project should all be ashamed of yourselves for producing the promise and not coming up with the goods.
As your website refers so frequently, that newspaper that you delivered with the whitehaven news, put in black and white the the rollout period would start early in 2004. SRPING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ring in, and you can still get copies. pah...
The Spring has now come and gone, the sprung has broken and we are no nearer to getting Broadband. Foul and nasty all round.
You've made the promise and disapoponted so many people, its untrue.....
For me, the date of June 30th is nothing but a black day, to be held in infamy....
Sad, sad, truly sad. |
| By Anonymous on Friday, 02 July, 2004 - 12:32 am: | | Hi, will broadband be available in branthwaite or dean anytime soon because i am having so much trouble with my internet speed and it really bugs me. Jonny Gate. |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Friday, 02 July, 2004 - 11:31 am: | Jonny Gate, I cannot give you a definitive answer as it looks as though Dean is probably on the Lamplugh exchange which BT has announced will be enabled by 20 April 2005 and Branthwaite is on the Workington exchange which is already enabled.
Try going to the BT website and in the box at the bottom right of the webpage, insert the telephone number of the premises where you want to have broadband, a new window will open giving you the information. |
| By Anonymous on Sunday, 04 July, 2004 - 06:49 pm: | Thought you should all know the following: "BT also announced that the initial results from trials to extend the reach of broadband beyond its current limit (roughly 6km) are looking "very promising". The telco didn't give away any other details but remains "confident" that it will find a way over the summer to "extend the reach of broadband ADSL services to over a million more homes and businesses throughout the UK"." From http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/07/01/bt_broadband/.
Looks as if it is likely that universally available ADSL will eventually become a reality as telecommunications suppliers innovate and deliver new services. Which is all likely to happen before Project Access is implemented. |
| By Anonymous on Monday, 05 July, 2004 - 11:05 am: | | What happened to Project Access - did it just fade away? |
| By Anonymous on Monday, 05 July, 2004 - 08:24 pm: | | in hibernation till 2010!!! |
| By Anonymous on Friday, 09 July, 2004 - 05:57 pm: | Just in case you thought that the CIBI team was a dead in the water, they put together a nice presentation saying that Broadband would roll out in March 2004. Fortunately, its been hidden in the voids of the internet for none of you to see.
Well I'VE FOUND FOR YOU ALL.!!
See for yourself,
http://www.dti.gov.uk/industries/telecoms/6abroadband_Parntership_network.pdf
This has been presented to a wide and varied number of people with lots of promises and wooly words in black and white. Note the date, March 2004.
This project was a hook from the start. I'm a tax Payer and I want me money back.....we all do.
cough up. |
| By Optomistic Cumbrian Resident on Friday, 09 July, 2004 - 06:56 pm: | What a load of whingers and moaners!
Maybe some of you should think about offering some support to those who put a lot of effort in to trying to help this county instead of sitting back doing nothing and whining all the time.
God knows how anyone outside this county views the people of Cumbria with only your constant negative attitudes to judge us by.
I will be happy to see CIBI deliver widespread broadband as it set out to do and you with egg on your faces. |
| By Anonymous on Friday, 09 July, 2004 - 07:37 pm: | I will be happy to see CIBI deliver widespread broadband as it set out to do and you with egg on your faces.
--Yep so would I, but unfortunately, you haven't been reading the propaganda properly. After the BT announcement, the project was reviewed because its not going to be as good as we thought.....I could of told you that for free.
Now project access has been through the mincer at the treasury, and had the flesh ripped off.
This means they're not getting as much money as they wanted, after spending thousand upon thousands of pounds. (Remember, Amion consulting don't come cheap)
Project access will never, i repeat, never deliver, they've said so in black and white, with a few fancy management bull' words.
And as for negative. Give me something positive to comment on. Not one part of the project has been on time. NOT ONE PART. NOT A SINGLE TARGET HAS BEEN MET. There were fantastic claims of rollout in March. Check the website, look at the leaflets, MARCH, MARCH, MARCH...... 2004.
What month are we in now.
I would dearly love to be shot up the arse, have egg on my face, eat my hat....if broadband was to arrive in JULY, AUGUST or SEPTEMBER, but i know it will never happen.
D.
ps.
This project is an embarrassment to Cumbria. That how outsiders view it. Trust me, I know many outsiders. And if this is the shape of things to come in terms of a regional assembly, then god help us. |
| By Optomistic Cumbrian Resident on Saturday, 10 July, 2004 - 12:34 am: | well at the broadband conference I was at in london last week project access was being held up as a shining example of what could be achieved so the outsiders you know must have the same complaining attitudes as you.
I have checked out the website and not seen anywhere where it says March. I did find early 2004 but not March. Haven't you heard of large projects having some slippage?
I guess that if CIBI delivers then you and the rest of the whingers won't want to be involved or get any benefit from it then. You would obviously prefer to stay in the dial up wilderness. |
| By Tony Bunce from dialup city Gosforth on Monday, 12 July, 2004 - 05:34 pm: | Dear OptoCR,
I would love to know what project Access has done to make itself such a shining example. Please tell me, as the advertised achievements detailed on the website amount to nothing. I've searched in vain and cannot find any reference to data being sent fast. Thats the measure of success. How the group can be praised as the way to go is beyond me. (in the words of Charlie Brown...."Good grief") The audience at the presentation must have been filled with Morons.
As for whinging, yep, like the Anonymous Mr D and the many others, I'm a whinger too, but I've also done more than my fair share of walking the streets, knocking the doors, advertising the project and informing residents that the project would start early in the year. Therefore, I think I've earned my right to whinge. So dont shoot the messenger.
Finally, I suggest you focus on reading the DETAILS.
Now that BT has made its wonderful f'n announcement no extra public money is going to be spent. That means CIBI categorically will not pay for places such as Gosforth to go online.
If you live in one of those 14 unviable areas move or buy yourself a pigeon with 1 Gig up its USB, its the best your gonna get. CIBI is a dead duck. They've admitted so on many occassions.
If you live elsewhere, you'll just have to wait for foul nasty rotten putrescible BT.... |
| By Anonymous on Wednesday, 14 July, 2004 - 08:50 am: | Detective Anonymous, i just looked at the presentation you found and I couldnt find where it said that the project would roll out in March 2004 and how come you know so much about it that you can say "This has been presented to a wide and varied number of people"?
Seems to me you are in this deeper than you let on maybe with something to gain |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Wednesday, 14 July, 2004 - 02:53 pm: | Northwest Development Agency today announced approval of £20 million for the groundbreaking Project ACCESS, a UK and Regional Development Agency ‘first’, which will enable the roll-out of broadband throughout Cumbria.
Project ACCESS, which will be officially launched in September, will provide broadband to over 95% of businesses and members of the public throughout Cumbria and North Lancashire, extending broadband coverage to areas which would otherwise be unable to receive the technology. |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Wednesday, 14 July, 2004 - 04:45 pm: | To all of those people on this forum who have chosen to criticise and condemn CIBI.
As you will have seen above, Project ACCESS has now received the approval it needs to be able to proceed. It has taken a long time and we are very sorry about that, but there really wasn’t any need for the tactics you chose to adopt because we were genuinely working very hard at gaining this and have now achieved something groundbreaking which we will deliver. |
| By Tony Bunce on Wednesday, 14 July, 2004 - 06:23 pm: | Well, I eat my hat with Salt and Vinegar....
As I have said on previous occassions I have been critical but this has been due to the lack of information. BT made their awful announcement and you said that the project was impacted upon. What impact did it have. (There was nothing made public, and we were left to stew, so what did you expect.)
Now you've been awarded the money, can you tell me what "Project Access" is, as nothing has been said on how you intend to deliver it, who to and who not to, where abouts, how much it will cost, where will you be breaking this new ground, (Gosforth I hope), what will rollout in September.
In essence I have to be honest but I don't know what the "Project" is, I can't find anything on the website except management weasel words.
Tony
PS.
Makes my cold Novembers night delivering your leaflets so worthwhile.
PPS.
Can I now order the service, I'll get the cheque in the post.
PPPS.
As for all the anons whinging and whining, at least I didn't hide my feelings about the project or hide behind the anonymous veil, I'm PROUD I MOANED. |
| By Anonymous on Thursday, 15 July, 2004 - 12:57 pm: | well done jennifer et al. however I will wait to see how the project develops and when before getting too excited.
How is the broadband to be delivered? where can we get the details of the bid and details of how 20m will be spent. Cibi are not off the hook till im sitting at my PC in Gosforth enjoying all the benefits it is suppose to provide. |
| By A rural dial-up sufferer on Thursday, 15 July, 2004 - 01:37 pm: | | Yes, some more information on what Project Access intends to do and how/when would definitely be helpful at this stage, otherwise the cynics might begin to think that it's a whopping £20M public subsidy for BT, Your Communications or whoever else will get the business. More information please! |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Thursday, 15 July, 2004 - 01:43 pm: | | We appreciate that everyone wants to know what, where, when, how and by whom, but until the contract is signed with the preferred provider we are bound by the confidentiality rules of the European (OJEC)Tendering process. No contract could be signed until we had the approval, so that is now the next step. |
| By tony bunce on Thursday, 15 July, 2004 - 08:38 pm: | (From BT regarding West Cumbria activation)
I have had a word with the technical planning team about Gosforth and now have a better explanation for you regarding your RFS date.
Gosforth is dependant on a new transmission ring being provided across a wide section of Lancashire. This new ring is required due to the existing ring exhausting its capacity. The date this new ring will be available is February 05 and it is this that is driving the RFS date of 20th April.
Once the new ring infra-structure is completed the BT systems will need to configure the circuits on the new network. When this is done the end-to-end network configuration for the Gosforth circuit can be built and tested. When this is complete we will then connect and commission the broadband equipment in Gosforth exchange.
Once the broadband equipment is commissioned it is BT's policy to ensure the equipment is fully functional and capable of providing Customers with the level of service they expect. To do this BT builds test lines on the broadband equipment and thoroughly tests the equipment. This process takes twenty days
These are the reasons for the 8/9 week delay between the ring infra-structure completing and the exchange RFS date.
I hope this goes some way to explaining the delay to your RFS date. |
| By Tony Bunce - dialing wildly.. on Wednesday, 21 July, 2004 - 05:35 pm: | | I trust that, now the project has the money, its not going to take 5 weeks (of torture) to sign a contract with the BB delivery company. |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Wednesday, 21 July, 2004 - 05:59 pm: | We understand and share the frustration of the people of Cumbria with regard to getting widespread access to affordable broadband and whether any of you believe it or not we are working as hard as we can to make it happen as quickly as possible.
There is total commitment within CIBI and the project team and being constantly harangued is neither helpful nor constructive and certainly does nothing to shorten the process. Therefore I would ask that everyone bears with us and as soon as we are able to provide the information you want, i.e. who, where, how and when, we will do so. |
| By Anonymous on Saturday, 24 July, 2004 - 10:28 am: | jennifer
the frustration felt by many people is not just about the lack of broadband. Cibi and project Access have a vast amount of public money with which to provide a service. Given the same sums I know for a fact that in the private sector the problems would have been resolved and the project completed by now. unfortunatly as a public sector partnership Cibi and its personnel must take the critisism levelled and provide answers. This is our money your spending and we have a right to question you all at every level.
I happily have broadband access that works great through BT I have no need of project access. I await with interest |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Monday, 26 July, 2004 - 11:12 am: | We have never disputed anyone’s right to question and have been honest about the answers given on the basis of the known facts at that point in time. In previous postings on this forum it has been stated quite clearly that once we are able to provide the information we will, but we are constrained by confidentiality aspects of the tendering process.
Everyone concerned continues to work very hard to move this project forward as quickly as possible. |
| By Tony Bunce - on Wednesday, 28 July, 2004 - 06:55 pm: | Dear Jennifer,
I understand that there are confidentiality issues and I don't doubt for one minute that you have worked very hard on the project.
Throughout this discussion group there seems to be a recurring theme of 'lack of information' which I wish you would learn from experience and finally put to bed.
It would make it easier on everyone if you could at least give the times/deadlines that you have. For example it would be very nice to read that you are meeting with XYZ on August 1st to discuss contract, 10th August to clarify small print, 21st August to sign the contract.
There's no need for names, (In fact we don't want names.... Mickey Mouse for all we care) just dates, and a plan of who gets and who doesn't, so that we know that something's happening and we dont have to linger for the B'#@*^(" 's at BT.
2 weeks have past since you've made the 'Historic' announcement, and again theres been nothing since. Something must of happened in this time.
regards,
Tony
PS. The nice, kind, dirty, rotten, scum of the earth at BT have recently charged me £17 for a call made by a dialler installed on my machine by a Pop-up.
I've Complained to the regulator about it and received a nice letter which detailed how I can pay the bill which I am obliged to pay.
So watch out for your internet connection. If it goes down and autodials, be ready for a stiff bill and no way of getting your money back. PAH!!! |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Tuesday, 28 September, 2004 - 09:34 am: | | Tony Bunce must now be a very happy man as the enablement date for Gosforth has been brought forward to 21 October 2004. |
| By Anonymous on Saturday, 02 October, 2004 - 08:06 pm: | | Yes it's great to see that all of Cumbria's exchanges will have broadband by mid July 2005. |
| By Anonymous on Tuesday, 05 October, 2004 - 09:30 am: | 14 "unviable" exchanges to be ADSL enabled by Your Communications, public subsidy £17.5 million. The rest to be enabled by BT, public subsidy £0.
Is it really as simple as this or am I missing something? |
| By Jennifer Holliday, Moderator on Tuesday, 05 October, 2004 - 10:23 am: | Anonymous, yes you are missing something and you are making an assumption about what is happening under Project ACCESS. Project ACCESS is not and never was only about enabling 14 telephone exchanges. If you re-read the forum and other information on this website you will see that has been made very clear.
There is no subsidy to anyone to do anything within this project. As I am sure you are aware State Aid Regulations would prevent this. To reiterate,Project ACCESS will enable the 14 exchanges listed on this website; create a public sector network for around 460 public buildings; use other technologies, where necessary, to ensure that at around 95% of businesses have access to 2Mb and that around 95% of people have access to 512kb. |
| By Anonymous on Tuesday, 05 October, 2004 - 04:17 pm: | Jennifer
After CIBI has been in operation for two years it is surely an inditement on the project as a whole and your self as project manager that these forums continue to be used by frustrated Cumbrians who see yet again vast sums of public money being poured into project access and yet the private sector and BT seem to be the only solutions.
Lack of communication by yourselves has left many bewildered by the whole process. Empty promises and lack of direction has turned what began as a wonderful concept into an overwhelming disaster. I have no doubt that 95% of Cumbrians will have access to Broadband by 2006. Technology moves on a pace. £17m of public money will be spent and Project Access will play a very small part in all that.
CIBI had the chance to be a flag ship for Cumbria. To make Cumbrians feel for perhaps the first time they could be ahead of the game. An opportunity sadly missed.
Shame on you all. |
| By Carlisle resident on Friday, 08 October, 2004 - 11:17 am: | Just a quick post to let any readers in the Sandsfield Park area of Carlisle know that we can now receive broadband (previously we have been unable to do so despite a 5.62km line length from our local ADSL exchange.
My AOL service has been 'live' for a couple of days, order accepted withot question despite the BT site saying an engineer visit may be required. </ | | |
